Yet another HVAC question

Israel

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Besides all other electrical components of relays, safety and overpressure switches does the outdoor contactor (on condenser unit of heat pump split system) in any way control air handler fan?

Issue is recent...air handler fan began cutting off, then back on cycling over a minute or two both ways while both in heat and cool mode. Pulled thermostat off wall plate to make sure wires looked good, and after replacing found fan wouldn't even come back on...not even intermittently. Checked wires again, did some re-tightening of little lugs and again, fan would come on but then cut off as original symptom. Convinced it was thermostat issue went and replaced it with new one.

Set fan to "on" and it ran as it should for several minutes, no cutting in and out. But when fan setting placed back to auto and called for heat, condenser came on as it should, fan came on and ran...but then started again cycling on and off.

I have had issues and replaced contactors over the years when faulty on condenser, but usually that has been solely due to condenser fan/compressor not operating correctly. (Ants and burned contacts the usual issue).

I believe this contactor was replaced only a few months ago but if there's any possibility of early failure causing this I am not reluctant to throw in another.

I simply (as is obvious) am not an HVAC guy and understand that in certain modes it is possible the air handler fan is in some way (when not set to "ON") dependent upon either a circuit from the condenser unit contactor, or something else I am also ignorant of. Any response is appreciated.

Additional note: Just noticed that when left in "Fan On" setting, fan runs without interruption but at a much slower speed (as evidenced by subdued "noise") but when running in heat mode it sounds far louder (as it usually did when running normally) and also when it cuts in and out. Blades spin freely, and I haven't noticed excess heat (or much at all) in fan housing.

OOps...fan just cut off while in "Fan On" mode with heat and cool "OFF".
And there's one of these inside the air handler...variable speed fan...and kaput circuit board?air handler circuit board.jpg
 
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ilbcnu

Senior Member
Sounds like it's an x13 motor module going out. By "both ways" do you mean the air handler fan going forward then reverse?
 

Israel

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Sounds like it's an x13 motor module going out. By "both ways" do you mean the air handler fan going forward then reverse?
sorry, "both ways" on/off...on for about a miniute, off for about maybe 20-30 seconds
 

Israel

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If fan motor is not an ecm x13 motor does it have its own capacitor? Could be weak
will have to check motor, but off hand don't remember seeing a "hump"
 

ilbcnu

Senior Member
If it was a tstat low voltage problem that 5 Amp fuse would most likely blow. It's not running long enough to build up heat so probably not a limit switch either. Most likely blower motor going out on thermal overload. Built in motor protection against motor overheating. Likely bad motor.
 

georgiadawgs44

Senior Member
The contactor in the outside unit has nothing to do with the indoor blower motor cutting off. Is this a heat pump system? If so, when the blower motor cuts off does the outside unit keep running?
 

Israel

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The contactor in the outside unit has nothing to do with the indoor blower motor cutting off. Is this a heat pump system? If so, when the blower motor cuts off does the outside unit keep running?
yes heat pump and yes continues to run for "a bit" but noticed last night once fan cut off, not long after that, the condenser did. It's got at least our 10 years of use plus whatever the previous owners put on it...
 

georgiadawgs44

Senior Member
Sounds like you’ve got a problem with the blower motor. Is it an ECM motor? Like an electronic controlled motor like the X-13 or a regular motor with a capacitor?
 

Israel

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Anyone still following...ball park the cost of an HVAC tech changing out for a new motor.
Sounds like you’ve got a problem with the blower motor. Is it an ECM motor? Like an electronic controlled motor like the X-13 or a regular motor with a capacitor?
I'm assuming it's an ECM X-13, if only because there are a space shuttle's worth of wires that plug into it...and those from a circuit board.
 

ilbcnu

Senior Member
If that's an x13 I would have them convert to pcm motor
 

georgiadawgs44

Senior Member
I don’t know how handy you are but if you have a meter you can unplug the harnesses from the motor and see if it’s sending voltage to it. If it’s an ECM and your getting both low and high voltage then replace it. It’s bad. Good news is you can buy rescue ECM’s now that program themselves.
 

ilbcnu

Senior Member
X13s are one of the biggest rip offs in hvac
 

ilbcnu

Senior Member
Anyone still following...ball park the cost of an HVAC tech changing out for a new motor.

I'm assuming it's an ECM X-13, if only because there are a space shuttle's worth of wires that plug into it...and those from a circuit board.
800 plus if ecm
 

georgiadawgs44

Senior Member
On
yes heat pump and yes continues to run for "a bit" but noticed last night once fan cut off, not long after that, the condenser did. It's got at least our 10 years of use plus whatever the previous owners put on it...
When a heat pump is running in heat mode the evaporator coil inside the air handler becomes the condenser coil. If you’re not moving air across it it will make the head pressure go way up and probably is tripping a high pressure safety in the outside unit.
 

ilbcnu

Senior Member
Personally I would just plug in a new module for around 250 diy
 

Israel

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On

When a heat pump is running in heat mode the evaporator coil inside the air handler becomes the condenser coil. If you’re not moving air across it it will make the head pressure go way up and probably is tripping a high pressure safety in the outside unit.
Thanks, I have a very basic understanding of reversing valves, heat exchange in compressing gasses to a liquid and absorption when going from that to a gaseous state.

But that finer point of head pressure I didn't consider; and appreciate as the explanation for it shutting down as the pressures increase by not exchanging heat into cooler air.
Thanks again.
 
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