A Very Dangerous Book

[SemperFiDawg]

SF, thanks for the reminder. This was the first book that I purchased from a Christian book store in the late 80's or early 90's. I have an appreciation for many of MacArthur's books.

From what I gather this is maybe the 3 edition, I think in which he’s clarified some points realized missing from the first and added a new chapter. Might be worth a re-read. I already know it’s gonna go on my top shelf where I keep books that I like to reread and reference frequently. It’s already obvious it’s gonna fit that category.

 

[gemcgrew]

From what I gather this is maybe the 3 edition, I think in which he’s clarified some points realized missing from the first and added a new chapter. Might be worth a re-read. I already know it’s gonna go on my top shelf where I keep books that I like to reread and reference frequently. It’s already obvious it’s gonna fit that category.

Is this the latest? If so, I am going to order it.

https://www.amazon.com/Gospel-According-Jesus-Authentic-Faith/dp/0310287294

 

[SemperFiDawg]

That's it, but Gem I'm thinking,.... thinking, and I may be wrong, but I'm thinking that I got mine off the Grace To You website and it was cheaper. Checking...
https://www.gty.org/store/products/featured-products/none/1/40

Yep, it's 5 dollars cheaper at GTY than amazon. That's a heck of a mark-up, 25%, Amazon has got going for it. I'm gonna have to watch their prices a lot closer from now on.

 

[gemcgrew]

Order placed. Probably be here in about a week. Looking forward to discussing it more with you.

Thanks!

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Order placed. Probably be here in about a week. Looking forward to discussing it more with you.

Thanks!

Good. Look forward to it also

 

[hawglips]

Just the idea of a council of men sitting around discussing what books to put in the New Testament doesn't even sound right to me. Then they voted on it? A group of men? Why didn't God just use one man to assemble the correct books of His Word?

Why limit God in this way? We only have a small fraction of the words that Jesus spoke and the things that He did in his 33 years in mortality. Why assume the things that a few decided are God's word is all God has spoken? He always has worked through actual prophets. And his prophets were never well received by the religious elite of the day. Always been that way, always will - till He comes again and cleans the slate...

But I agree with your view of the council of Nice...

I do like Paul the best. I can identify with him. He isn't always sure of himself. He talks as himself and as the voice of God. He has struggles.
If I was an apostle, I'd be Paul.

I also know that Saul was not seeking. In fact he was against God. It took God to call Saul and make him Paul.

When Paul was fighting against God, he apparently thought he was serving God, going about doing good. Same as the religious elite that fight God today.

But we don't know if his conscious was pricked after Steven. There's no record of it. We don't know what was going on in Paul's heart or what he was thinking when the Lord came to him on the road to Damascus. All we know is Paul responded and was changed and born again and sought to right the damage he'd done for the rest of his life. He put his hands on the plow and never looked back. He suffered and was persecuted and reportedly died a gruesome death for the glory of his Redeemer - once he was shown his mistake.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Why limit God in this way? We only have a small fraction of the words that Jesus spoke and the things that He did in his 33 years in mortality. Why assume the things that a few decided are God's word is all God has spoken? He always has worked through actual prophets. And his prophets were never well received by the religious elite of the day. Always been that way, always will - till He comes again and cleans the slate...

But I agree with your view of the council of Nice...



When Paul was fighting against God, he apparently thought he was serving God, going about doing good. Same as the religious elite that fight God today.

But we don't know if his conscious was pricked after Steven. There's no record of it. We don't know what was going on in Paul's heart or what he was thinking when the Lord came to him on the road to Damascus. All we know is Paul responded and was changed and born again and sought to right the damage he'd done for the rest of his life. He put his hands on the plow and never looked back. He suffered and was persecuted and reportedly died a gruesome death for the glory of his Redeemer - once he was shown his mistake.

I'll agree with you on the prophets. I'd rather put my faith in them. Even the one's whose prophesy were not chosen by those councils of men.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Good. Look forward to it also

Gem! Did your book come in?

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Why limit God in this way? We only have a small fraction of the words that Jesus spoke and the things that He did in his 33 years in mortality. Why assume the things that a few decided are God's word is all God has spoken? He always has worked through actual prophets. And his prophets were never well received by the religious elite of the day. Always been that way, always will - till He comes again and cleans the slate...

But I agree with your view of the council of Nice...



When Paul was fighting against God, he apparently thought he was serving God, going about doing good. Same as the religious elite that fight God today.

But we don't know if his conscious was pricked after Steven. There's no record of it. We don't know what was going on in Paul's heart or what he was thinking when the Lord came to him on the road to Damascus. All we know is Paul responded and was changed and born again and sought to right the damage he'd done for the rest of his life. He put his hands on the plow and never looked back. He suffered and was persecuted and reportedly died a gruesome death for the glory of his Redeemer - once he was shown his mistake.

Just a simple question for the both of you. If even the hairs of your head are numbered, and God is sovern over everything from when a sparrow falls dead, to the decisions of ALL the rulers of the earth, do you really, really, really suggest that the Bible we have today, his revelation of himself and his plan for humanity, was somehow corrupted? Think about it.

hawg, you ask “why limit God in this way?” Have you even considered the ramifications of that? Are YOU the one who frees God? Come on Brother!

 

[Artfuldodger]

Just a simple question for the both of you. If even the hairs of your head are numbered, and God is sovern over everything from when a sparrow falls dead, to the decisions of ALL the rulers of the earth, do you really, really, really suggest that the Bible we have today, his revelation of himself and his plan for humanity, was somehow corrupted? Think about it.

hawg, you ask “why limit God in this way?” Have you even considered the ramifications of that? Are YOU the one who frees God? Come on Brother!

I don't think the Bible is corrupted. I just think it's only a part of who God is and what he can do. Can he not use his Spirit to call those who've never heard or read the Bible? Just one example.

Then there were more prophets and books that weren't chosen. Those are even quoted in scripture. In that way they must be inspired by God.

John MacArthur’s book The Gospel According To Jesus? If it's the blessing that you say it is, wouldn't God have to at least in some way provided MacArthur with the inspiration to write it? Another example.

We have many resources from God, some through physical means and others through spiritual means.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I don't think the Bible is corrupted. I just think it's only a part of who God is and what he can do. Can he not use his Spirit to call those who've never heard or read the Bible? Just one example.

Then there were more prophets and books that weren't chosen. Those are even quoted in scripture. In that way they must be inspired by God.

John MacArthur’s book The Gospel According To Jesus? If it's the blessing that you say it is, wouldn't God have to at least in some way provided MacArthur with the inspiration to write it? Another example.

We have many resources from God, some through physical means and others through spiritual means.

Like a reed in the wind.

 

[StriperAddict]

Well, many of you know that the grace of God is everything to me it is change my perspective and giving me new eyes to see through the entirety of the scriptures. It is been such a wonderful freeing revelation that I can't stop being joyful over it, giddy perhaps! That said I'd look very carefully at any book that causes us to feel as if the holy spirit is beating us up. He is our comforter, Bringing us into all truth. It is the WORLD (unbelievers) He "convicts of sin, righteousness and judgement."
Now having said that, I agree that at any time the spirit of God reveals flesh patterns in our thoughts/beliefs, or any old ways of self effort that need to be cast aside and replaced with faith and dependency on Christ's finished work, then that is right on.

MacArthur doesn't sit too well with me with his extreme Calvinism. I find the scriptures give us more Breathing Room For Life in faith and understanding our Union with Jesus Christ.

That's all, because I haven't read the book, but may do so. Thanks for sharing this.

 

[gemcgrew]

Gem! Did your book come in?

Yes it did. I have read through the intros and just started the 1st chapter. It is difficult for me not to jump ahead to his added chapter on Justification, but I will read it in order.

I hope to be able to make significant progress over the weekend.

 

[gemcgrew]

MacArthur doesn't sit too well with me with his extreme Calvinism.

I can't imagine anybody who has studied historical Calvinism at all, would label him as extreme.

He is known as a soft Calvinist among the studied.

"When the true Gospel of Grace is preached, the believers will be glad, the rebels will get mad, and the pharisees will be confused." Rolfe Barnard

 

[gordon 2]

With reference to the book and the red letters: "What it DOES do it bring a laser focus onto what Christ said and a full understanding of the implications of his words."

Evangelicals have not focused on what Jesus said? Since Luther was haunted on his salvation he was not focused on what Jesus said? Since the many dissenter refugee groups of Europe colonized North America with bible and interpretation-doctrine in hand and heart they have not focused on what Jesus said? Since Tomas Jefferson collected what Jesus said into a personal scrapbook and all the citizens of the Republic were made to know it? And what Jesus says today, no, what God says today, a book focus with "full understanding" is a shake up for the evangelical? If this is strength, what is weakness?



The experience of God supposedly in our hearts, in our mind, in our sufferings, in joys and in our limbs would the halter and a bridle be cut loose of this ever seeking of knowledge to "full understanding" of what God says and meant and disregarded rather to graze in the full view and shepherded daily? No. Let us form and re-form on red letters. Let us right and fight to run our race. And so it goes... to the beginning again.


https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/80-53/the-lordship-controversy

Quote:"What is there to say about the gospel according to Jesus? I mean He died on the cross and rose again, and you believe in Him, and you receive eternal life.

But there is a tremendous amount of confusion* about this subject. And people are polarizing on different views. And I think that it’s time to make a clear statement about what Jesus taught about the gospel and go back to the beginning." un quote

"Quote: "So, apparently a person who claims to know the Lord, but who has a pattern of life of working iniquity, will not be admitted to heaven. And we’ve got to be consistent about taking what Jesus said and building our theology of the gospel on that. " un quote

(Do evangelicals suffer and benefit for the spirits of confusion and competition? I wonder why if so?)

 

[SemperFiDawg]

(Do evangelicals suffer and benefit for the spirits of confusion and competition? I wonder why if so?)

I see no benefits. We suffer because we are afflicted with sin. What you see in evangelism, is the same thing the you see in The Fall: man making himself Lord.
Today, the evangelistic church in America is the Laodician church. We pay tribute to Christ with our lips, while chasing that American Dream, again making ourselves Lord.

Luke 6:46
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?"

 

[gordon 2]

Unfortunately I think you are correct and not only Lord we make ourselves but are at home calling good evil and evil good in his name like it's just another day of chewing gum. ( And I don't say this to be negative or mean or to troll. I think if the truth must set us free, then it is all the truth, all the time; for the dressers of the North American nations, from the beginnings to the present are for the most part the spawn of dissenters ---from Puritans to Levelers, Diggers to Quakers. Americans are fighters. It is of their spiritual heritage to fight and not only to fight against national and international spiritual institutions, but within their own ranks. To fight the good fight is honored. To be a peacemaker less so. Yet we can ask, " What is God's view on it." And I think simply said this is what MacArthur sets himself to do... in the long run.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Dissenters

I think MacArthur is coming round in his own spiritual walk to laying bare what his spiritual heritage is and has been and where he might go from now. His focus on Jesus is spot on. I find him mealy mouthed sometimes, especially that he takes himself as called to be a great communicator. Never the less, I think he is genuine considering where he comes from. And we must be, I must be, patient, because we all come from somewhere.)

I am not much, but I live this as MacArthur importantly points out: I love God and this love so makes my garments fall when to Him. Of this love I dare no shame. And find myself mindful of all who struggle.

And of this love it was not raised out of definitions of ideas and sure meanings in scripture. It was when he gave me to bask in the fragrance of his son. And on Him I do not believe and that I would continue to do so as is MacArthur's new find,( if I understand him, as I find him difficult) for how can one believe on Him and with grace who visited me? How can I believe what is as if it might not be or had never been.

If any man denies Christ and having lived with God, then he denies the Holy Spirit. Or he is ill. His/Her challenges were not met with patience. Or the sins of fathers have muddied his walk and hope becomes hopelessness... and depression. Unable to overcome the world with the love of God we give up... Not on God, but on his love. And the mountains are ( continue as) high ground to fight over and not delights marveled at by peacemakers united in Him.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I see no benefits. We suffer because we are afflicted with sin. What you see in evangelism, is the same thing the you see in The Fall: man making himself Lord.
Today, the evangelistic church in America is the Laodician church. We pay tribute to Christ with our lips, while chasing that American Dream, again making ourselves Lord.

Luke 6:46
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?"

This brings us all back to "Obedience." We all know it is asked of us by Christ. We just all have different beliefs on exactly what that obedience is.

I don't think many of us know exactly what we are suppose to do to "obey God."

 

[SemperFiDawg]

This brings us all back to "Obedience." We all know it is asked of us by Christ. We just all have different beliefs on exactly what that obedience is.

I don't think many of us know exactly what we are suppose to do to "obey God."

I think you are mistaken on every point you just made.

Obedience is not "asked" of us by Christ. It's demanded. Always has been, always will be, from Adam and Eve, through Moses and the first Commandment, through Christ all the way down through Revelations.

We do not "all just have different beliefs on what exactly obedience is." What obedience entails is spelled out exactly and precisely in the Bible. What "we" have is people pretending that they don't comprehend what is written in RED, and then pretending it means something less, something more comfortable.

Sooooo, if you are literate, you can't pretend you don't know "exactly what we are supposed to do to obey God." Do you really think that is gonna fly when you stand before him.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I think you are mistaken on every point you just made.

Obedience is not "asked" of us by Christ. It's demanded. Always has been, always will be, from Adam and Eve, through Moses and the first Commandment, through Christ all the way down through Revelations.

We do not "all just have different beliefs on what exactly obedience is." What obedience entails is spelled out exactly and precisely in the Bible. What "we" have is people pretending that they don't comprehend what is written in RED, and then pretending it means something less, something more comfortable.

Sooooo, if you are literate, you can't pretend you don't know "exactly what we are supposed to do to obey God." Do you really think that is gonna fly when you stand before him.

I think most Christians agree they are suppose to obedient to God. I Don't see many Christians as trying to deny that. I don't think that, as individuals, we/they are not showing obedience on purpose.

They may be being mislead by Church leaders. They may just really don't know. I think maybe it's not so easy to see exactly what scripture tells us concerning obedience to God.