Evolution debate will soon be history

[TheBishop]

Willard explains clearly that is not the case, I don't understand why you keep saying it. And again, there is no god being forced here, this is the first stage in an argument, this is simply positing a non physical, eternal, self sustaining being.

If I remember correctly you believe a being or a god is where humans derive our morals from, why are you so against a being creating the universe?

You do not remember correctly. Being is a word I never used. And I'm not agianst it. I just don't see it as a logical possibility, especially the one you are reffering too. The god of the bible, to me, contradicts all that is logical. Is there a god? Possibly. But I am certain that it is not the one in the book assembled by those in power, to keep and maintain their power, using fear and the ignorance of the masses to do so.
I do not beleive in a god persay, but I will say, in all my research there does seem to be a connection between everything. When I say everything, I mean everything. A cosmic force(s), of some sort.

 

[Oak-flat Hunter]

Way to go Thebishop. well put!!!!

 

[Asath]

“The hard part is that they're not all villainous, money grubbing manipulators.”

Agreed, and I’m sorry if I came across as that harsh – While I blame the entire phenomenon on the manipulators, I recognize that the vast majority of the ‘believers’ are counted among the manipulated. They don’t believe simply because they have thought about it – they believe because they have been told to do so from the moment of birth, and had their life defined by the option of pleasing the elders or being punished for failing to do so. The followers themselves are not villains – merely manipulated fools – the genuine blame falls on the manipulators, who make their living and wield their ‘power’ entirely on the strength of their words-- lacking proof, demonstration, or even the courtesy of honest answers.

And also agreed, that after a lifetime of being battered by the manipulators, most simply capitulate, and throw in the towel – who are THEY, after all (they’ve been told all their lives) to doubt the endless lecturing they’ve been subjected to? But understanding WHY people do stupid things is a far reach away from ratifying those things as no longer stupid.

THAT people adhere by the hundreds of millions to the unexamined irrationality placed in their laps as children is undisputed. WHY they do so, once grown into thoughtful adults, is a fair question to ask each of them directly.

I similarly have little hope that most of them will ask, or even examine, the hard questions, since they are continually shouted down when they try, or conversely, shout down the questioner. But just as science is constructed one brick at a time, irrational thought is dismantled the same way. Each proof that has accrued throughout history has removed yet another prop that had formerly been relied upon by Belief. The reactions of the Believers to actual truth has always been violent denial, and has always ended in blood – but they have always lost in the end, and continue that retreat. Strength in numbers is no defense against demonstrated reality. One man who is right (insert your favorite here, be it Copernicus, Galileo, Bohr, Einstein, Hubble, or whomever) will always defeat hordes of passionate people who are wrong.

We won’t change anything, on any wholesale scale, in this forum, but we CAN do one thing – notice that the views/post ratios indicate that plenty of people are reading down here – far more than in the other forums. This indicates that minds are being engaged well beyond the habitual deniers who respond less out of thoughtfulness than out of defensiveness. Our work here is received, again, one brick at a time . . .

 

[fish hawk]

“The hard part is that they're not all villainous, money grubbing manipulators.”

Agreed, and I’m sorry if I came across as that harsh – While I blame the entire phenomenon on the manipulators, I recognize that the vast majority of the ‘believers’ are counted among the manipulated. They don’t believe simply because they have thought about it – they believe because they have been told to do so from the moment of birth, and had their life defined by the option of pleasing the elders or being punished for failing to do so. The followers themselves are not villains – merely manipulated fools – the genuine blame falls on the manipulators, who make their living and wield their ‘power’ entirely on the strength of their words-- lacking proof, demonstration, or even the courtesy of honest answers. Being a Christian is not about pleasing a man or elder it's about pleasing God.Shows just how much you know about being a Christian

And also agreed, that after a lifetime of being battered by the manipulators, most simply capitulate, and throw in the towel – who are THEY, after all (they’ve been told all their lives) to doubt the endless lecturing they’ve been subjected to? But understanding WHY people do stupid things is a far reach away from ratifying those things as no longer stupid. I've never been battered by manipulators,so i dont have a clue nor do you about what your talking about

THAT people adhere by the hundreds of millions to the unexamined irrationality placed in their laps as children is undisputed. WHY they do so, once grown into thoughtful adults, is a fair question to ask each of them directly. I didnt become a Christian until my mid thrities,so wrong again

I similarly have little hope that most of them will ask, or even examine, the hard questions, since they are continually shouted down when they try, or conversely, shout down the questioner. But just as science is constructed one brick at a time, irrational thought is dismantled the same way. Each proof that has accrued throughout history has removed yet another prop that had formerly been relied upon by Belief. The reactions of the Believers to actual truth has always been violent denial, and has always ended in blood – but they have always lost in the end, and continue that retreat. Strength in numbers is no defense against demonstrated reality. One man who is right (insert your favorite here, be it Copernicus, Galileo, Bohr, Einstein, Hubble, or whomever) will always defeat hordes of passionate people who are wrong. More nonsense

We won’t change anything, on any wholesale scale, in this forum, but we CAN do one thing – notice that the views/post ratios indicate that plenty of people are reading down here – far more than in the other forums.And which forums would that be sir? This indicates that minds are being engaged well beyond the habitual deniers who respond less out of thoughtfulness than out of defensiveness. Our work here is received, again, one brick at a time . . .

I do believe I could count the regular atheist posters in this subfourm on one hand.I do believe the regular Christian posters out number the regular atheist posters 5 to 1

 

[bullethead]

I do believe I could count the regular atheist posters in this subfourm on one hand.I do believe the regular Christian posters out number the regular atheist posters 5 to 1

25 "regular" Christian posters compared to 5 "regular" non-believers?
Start naming them.

 

[TheBishop]

25 "regular" Christian posters compared to 5 "regular" non-believers?
Start naming them.

 

[Asath]

“I do believe I could count the regular atheist posters in this subfourm on one hand.I do believe the regular Christian posters out number the regular atheist posters 5 to 1.”

Thank you for making my point.

Y’all come down here, to the Atheist forum, in large numbers, and attempt through the sheer overwhelming force of ignorance to shout us down -- somehow deluded by the idea that a lot of you are somehow smarter than one of you. But the point is that if ten million people wish to shout and posture and condemn and use animated smilies as insulting gestures in an attempt to prove that the earth is flat – it still won’t be.

The fact that nearly EVERYBODY can be wrong is well proven, as even a Seventh-Grade reading of history reveals. So telling us that you outnumber us is little more than a bullying tactic, and is only a pure proof of just HOW MANY stupid folks there are. Thanks for the heads-up, but we already knew that.

Any thought that society can be re-directed back to ancient Biblical ideas is not only absurd but is given the lie by your own arguments. Not a single Believer lives their lives strictly according to their Bible. It can’t be done, if only because a huge number of the Biblical instructions have been outlawed on the grounds that they are insane.

So, if we count the readers as well, rather than only the regularly insane folks, your ratio may well be far in excess of 5 to 1, and may exceed 30,000 to 1. So, are you contending that the NUMBER of Believers makes them right? Nearly everyone on the planet (with the exception of the Arab Scholars, who were far ahead of us back then) BELIEVED that the Earth was the center of the universe. Nearly everyone on the planet BELIEVED that the Earth was flat. An overwhelming number of people on the planet, to this day, BELIEVE in an invisible God who grants their wishes.

Are we starting to discern a pattern here?

Just about everyone CAN be wrong, and usually is.

5 to 1 is chump odds, considering what Copernicus was up against, and guess who was right? And read on, because the ‘religious’ opposition to truth never waned, and has never been proven to be right. Not once. All religions have ever done is retreat and adapt and rationalize, and they do little more today. It stopped being interesting, and became actually a concern about 250 years ago, and led to the Founders of This country going out of their way to cut you folks out of sober legislative policy -- the ‘Separation of Church and State’ was not designed to ‘respect’ the church – it was designed to prevent nutballs from making national policy. WE, quite carefully and deliberately, separated ourselves from YOU.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Well hopefully your anti-nutball group will do a better job of running the government than the Christians. What is your prediction on when the US government will be "all atheist" or at least a majority. Besides those nutball Blue laws, what are some real issues better served by the new Atheist government? Will the Atheist do a better job of race relations and womens lib as those are religious problems stemming from the Bible? Hopefully the Atheist will stop taking my hard earned money to help people who are not willing to help themselves. If ya'll can do that you've got my vote.

 

[fish hawk]

“I do believe I could count the regular atheist posters in this subfourm on one hand.I do believe the regular Christian posters out number the regular atheist posters 5 to 1.”

Thank you for making my point.

Y’all come down here, to the Atheist forum, in large numbers, and attempt through the sheer overwhelming force of ignorance to shout us down -- somehow deluded by the idea that a lot of you are somehow smarter than one of you. But the point is that if ten million people wish to shout and posture and condemn and use animated smilies as insulting gestures in an attempt to prove that the earth is flat – it still won’t be.

The fact that nearly EVERYBODY can be wrong is well proven, as even a Seventh-Grade reading of history reveals. So telling us that you outnumber us is little more than a bullying tactic, and is only a pure proof of just HOW MANY stupid folks there are. Thanks for the heads-up, but we already knew that.

Any thought that society can be re-directed back to ancient Biblical ideas is not only absurd but is given the lie by your own arguments. Not a single Believer lives their lives strictly according to their Bible. It can’t be done, if only because a huge number of the Biblical instructions have been outlawed on the grounds that they are insane.

So, if we count the readers as well, rather than only the regularly insane folks, your ratio may well be far in excess of 5 to 1, and may exceed 30,000 to 1. So, are you contending that the NUMBER of Believers makes them right? Nearly everyone on the planet (with the exception of the Arab Scholars, who were far ahead of us back then) BELIEVED that the Earth was the center of the universe. Nearly everyone on the planet BELIEVED that the Earth was flat. An overwhelming number of people on the planet, to this day, BELIEVE in an invisible God who grants their wishes.

Are we starting to discern a pattern here?

Just about everyone CAN be wrong, and usually is.

5 to 1 is chump odds, considering what Copernicus was up against, and guess who was right? And read on, because the ‘religious’ opposition to truth never waned, and has never been proven to be right. Not once. All religions have ever done is retreat and adapt and rationalize, and they do little more today. It stopped being interesting, and became actually a concern about 250 years ago, and led to the Founders of This country going out of their way to cut you folks out of sober legislative policy -- the ‘Separation of Church and State’ was not designed to ‘respect’ the church – it was designed to prevent nutballs from making national policy. WE, quite carefully and deliberately, separated ourselves from YOU.

As i read all your post I often wonder?Do you or have you ever smiled....I've had an Atheist tell me,Quote:I tend to side with Christians on political matters, because they generally have the same set of core values as I do.

 

[Michael F. Gray]

Sorry you missed the memo, ...it's already settled. Read Genesis 1:1 for the TRUTH

 

[jmcrae1]

Atheists on this forum are always asking for proof that God is real, for one shred of concrete evidence that he exist. I ask for one solid concrete piece of evidence that God does not exist. I'm not trying to be mean or rude to anyone and if I come off that way I aplogize in advance, I would just like to know the evidence on to why he is not real.

 

[bullethead]

Atheists on this forum are always asking for proof that God is real, for one shred of concrete evidence that he exist. I ask for one solid concrete piece of evidence that God does not exist. I'm not trying to be mean or rude to anyone and if I come off that way I aplogize in advance, I would just like to know the evidence on to why he is not real.

For the same reasons you do not believe in any other God exists, leprechauns exist or unicorns exist.

If all the proof one needs to "prove" something is to say " prove my imaginary friend does not exist" then we would have some even more serious problems worldwide.
Not being able to provide evidence of make believe things is not actually proof.

 

[jmcrae1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nda_OSWeyn8

 

[jmcrae1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Indian_Rhino_(Rhinoceros_unicornis)1_-_Relic38.jpg

 

[bullethead]

Hang in there tiger, you are special.

 

[jmcrae1]

I'm sorry you don't enjoy laughter.

 

[bullethead]

I'm sorry you don't enjoy laughter.

I do, that is why I said what I did.

 

[bullethead]

Since we are on the subject though, how do you explain how the God you believe in is real and how all the others are not? What evidence do you use that shows no other Gods besides yours exist?

 

[jmcrae1]

The proof of my God's existance lies within a book that you deem unreliable. The reason I do not beleive in any other gods is because after reading parts of the koran, hindu texts, and writings about bhudisim I can see that all of these religions want me to do something physical in order to be accepted be it praying five times daily or finding self enlightenment through meditation. My God only ask me to accept his Love and ask for forgivness of my sins. He freely gave his life so that I may live forever. He lives within my heart and that is how I know he is real and although you may not believe in him or have something that you can lay your hands on doesn't make him any less real.

 

[Four]

The proof of my God's existance lies within a book that you deem unreliable. The reason I do not beleive in any other gods is because after reading parts of the koran, hindu texts, and writings about bhudisim I can see that all of these religions want me to do something physical in order to be accepted be it praying five times daily or finding self enlightenment through meditation. My God only ask me to accept his Love and ask for forgivness of my sins. He freely gave his life so that I may live forever. He lives within my heart and that is how I know he is real and although you may not believe in him or have something that you can lay your hands on doesn't make him any less real.

So for you, the true god is the one that is from the religion that is easiest to follow?