menhadenman
Senior Member
Love that Grendel… wouldn’t mind an ARC (Grendel necked down to a 243/6mm) if I didn’t already have three 6.5 barrels. For a slow round it sure is an accurate killer.
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6.5 creedmore vs 6.5 PRC
- Thread starter JR924
- Start date
menhadenman
Senior Member
One last thought to share @JR924 - I used to be all in on faster, lighter rounds like a 25-06 when I didn’t have a range finder or scope that dials. I kept shots inside of 350 using max point blank range shooting with slight holdover at the far range of my comfort zone.
My thought there was flat trajectory would offset misjudged distance and energy = M*V2 (velocity can offset mass pretty quick if energy matters).
Fast forward 20 years, living out west I learned from several guys in person and online the value of scopes that dial, range finders, chronometers, and using DOPE. And how higher BC = less wind deflection and more energy/velocity retained down range.
I have a 308 now that shoots 175 gr bullets at a measly 2550 or so fps and can easily ring 12” plates to 700 yards. Wouldn’t shoot an elk at that distance with those bullets but trigger time and understanding the system has made me a better shooter.
BC is even important in the wind like you have out west. It’s far easier to get a range and do the math than it is for me to shoot in 10-20 mph winds (elevation is math, wind is voodoo).
I still use both types of setups depending on where I’m going but on top of everyone’s suggestions here, a reliable system that you can afford to shoot often is a top priority for me these days.
A few cool online calculators to play with if you’d like to go deeper in the rabbit hole. It’s worse than fishing
shooterscalculator.com
bergerbullets.com
bisonballistics.com
My thought there was flat trajectory would offset misjudged distance and energy = M*V2 (velocity can offset mass pretty quick if energy matters).
Fast forward 20 years, living out west I learned from several guys in person and online the value of scopes that dial, range finders, chronometers, and using DOPE. And how higher BC = less wind deflection and more energy/velocity retained down range.
I have a 308 now that shoots 175 gr bullets at a measly 2550 or so fps and can easily ring 12” plates to 700 yards. Wouldn’t shoot an elk at that distance with those bullets but trigger time and understanding the system has made me a better shooter.
BC is even important in the wind like you have out west. It’s far easier to get a range and do the math than it is for me to shoot in 10-20 mph winds (elevation is math, wind is voodoo).
I still use both types of setups depending on where I’m going but on top of everyone’s suggestions here, a reliable system that you can afford to shoot often is a top priority for me these days.
A few cool online calculators to play with if you’d like to go deeper in the rabbit hole. It’s worse than fishing
ShootersCalculator.com | Point Blank Range Calculator
Calculates the maximum point blank range of a firearm cartridge fired from a rifle or handgun.
Twist Rate Stability Calculator
Our newly updated Twist Rate Stability Calculator not only tells you what your SG is, but it also lets you know if you are reaching your optimized BC.
bergerbullets.com
Hit Probability Calculator
A free hit probability calculator for long range shooting.
bisonballistics.com
Dub
Senior Member
Then there is the matter of locating a tribe of Pygmy warriors for hire to tote the thing around…..
My mind has been occupied with twist rates, freebore, 5R, lapping, etc, etc as I piddle around getting a barrel or three For target use.
When your mentioned twist rate options it kicked me right back to target gun mode. I think my first barrel will weigh about 37 lbs by itself. The chassis I’m using has a channel for the wheel axle just aft of the arcalock rail…….
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Cherokee Gun and Pawn will basically match or beat Bud's price. 243 plain blue and black synthetic at $609 Sauer 100XT vs. Bud at $603 but you have the $20 FFL Transfer Fee, 6.5 PRC Creakaote for $669 and a 6.5 CM in stainless for $639 and a 6.5 CM Creakote for $699. Drew said absolutely he would buy a 6.5 CM over the other calibers due to availability, choice and price of ammo, more energy and better accuracy at long range. Little difference in recoil with the 243. Love Cherokee gun and pawn, I think the best in Cherokee County on price. 6.5 CM seems to be the consensus of the majority of the replies. Going to buy it tomorrow if I win the fight with my wife tonight. Hoping even if bruised and battered and mentally damaged, I can manage to make the phone call and buy it. Thanks again for the excellent discussion.
Robert28
Senior Member
Whatever you end up with, it’s always fun to buy a new hunting rifle. I haven’t seen a bad choice suggested yet. Makes it tough!
Dub
Senior Member
Much better if they have what you want right there in stock. Inspect the gun you are buying.
No waiting on the delays and shenanigans that can occur if you ship it to your FFL.
Getting expert advice and service from a local store is worth much more than the price difference, if any, from the faceless Buds order.
Long post but feel I need to close it out with a summary post. After considering the advice of these replies, bunch of articles on the 6.5 CM vs other calibers and advice of the gun shop, I am putting a deposit on the 243 Sauer 100XT, the cheapest caliber in that gun except for the magnum calibers which are the same price. My reasons are as follows.
1. I am just not that good of shot. I still miss too much shooting a deer size target from a good benchrest at 400 yards with all 5 shots so from the field will be worse. Therefore I think the best range I can ethically shoot deer size or larger game from shooting sticks will be 350 yards and won't get much better as I shoot more. Therefore my 8x57 would be suitable for deer and elk. Buffalo bore now has 5 hot loads with several suitable for elk and long range antelope so enough energy for even long shots if I am comfortable with longer distances.
We will make five different 8X57 Mauser loads, utilizing the below bullets:
1. 150 gr. Spitzer soft point @ 2900 fps
2. 170 gr. Spitzer soft point @ 2700 fps
3. 170 gr. Barnes TSX @ 2650 fps
4. 195 gr. Spitzer soft point @ 2500 fps
5. 200 gr. TSX @ 2500 fps
2. If I ever get to hunt antelope, the 243 should be sufficient and maybe I can even stretch my shooting distance. Many loads adequate for that and Buffalo Bore has a hot load for big game
PREMIUM 243 WIN. SUPERCHARGED - LEAD-FREE 85 gr. Barnes TSX Boat Tail (3,350 fps/ME 2,118 ft. lbs).
3. 243 (99.7 cents ) ammo cost is close to 6.5 CM (91.9 cents) for 20 round deer SP loads. I will not shoot that much so this is a non factor in my decision.
4. The average lower (25% less) recoil of the 243 vs the 6.5 CM and its lower bullet drop for the hunting ranges I will shoot at is a big factor. I think I will be slightly more accurate with the 243 under those conditions.
3. To me the advantage of the 6.5 CM is for over 400 yards hunting and extreme long range shooting target. It has less wind drift, lower drop and bigger bullets for that application. However I think those advantages are when you are shooting like ranges over 500 yards.
4. Majority of my shooting with the 243 will be for coyotes and targets under 400 yards. I think I can extend my range a bit for coyotes and the 243 would work well for this. My range I go to is limited to 400 yards. I will not compete, hunt or shoot longer distances. If I was hunting longer ranges, into long range target shootings and going after elk a lot, the 6.5 CM would be a better choice. Together the 243 and the 8x57 completely cover my hunting needs.
Hope I summarized that accurately. Please forgive me for not jumping on the 6.5 CM bandwagon. Thanks again for the excellent replies.
1. I am just not that good of shot. I still miss too much shooting a deer size target from a good benchrest at 400 yards with all 5 shots so from the field will be worse. Therefore I think the best range I can ethically shoot deer size or larger game from shooting sticks will be 350 yards and won't get much better as I shoot more. Therefore my 8x57 would be suitable for deer and elk. Buffalo bore now has 5 hot loads with several suitable for elk and long range antelope so enough energy for even long shots if I am comfortable with longer distances.
We will make five different 8X57 Mauser loads, utilizing the below bullets:
1. 150 gr. Spitzer soft point @ 2900 fps
2. 170 gr. Spitzer soft point @ 2700 fps
3. 170 gr. Barnes TSX @ 2650 fps
4. 195 gr. Spitzer soft point @ 2500 fps
5. 200 gr. TSX @ 2500 fps
2. If I ever get to hunt antelope, the 243 should be sufficient and maybe I can even stretch my shooting distance. Many loads adequate for that and Buffalo Bore has a hot load for big game
PREMIUM 243 WIN. SUPERCHARGED - LEAD-FREE 85 gr. Barnes TSX Boat Tail (3,350 fps/ME 2,118 ft. lbs).
3. 243 (99.7 cents ) ammo cost is close to 6.5 CM (91.9 cents) for 20 round deer SP loads. I will not shoot that much so this is a non factor in my decision.
4. The average lower (25% less) recoil of the 243 vs the 6.5 CM and its lower bullet drop for the hunting ranges I will shoot at is a big factor. I think I will be slightly more accurate with the 243 under those conditions.
3. To me the advantage of the 6.5 CM is for over 400 yards hunting and extreme long range shooting target. It has less wind drift, lower drop and bigger bullets for that application. However I think those advantages are when you are shooting like ranges over 500 yards.
4. Majority of my shooting with the 243 will be for coyotes and targets under 400 yards. I think I can extend my range a bit for coyotes and the 243 would work well for this. My range I go to is limited to 400 yards. I will not compete, hunt or shoot longer distances. If I was hunting longer ranges, into long range target shootings and going after elk a lot, the 6.5 CM would be a better choice. Together the 243 and the 8x57 completely cover my hunting needs.
Hope I summarized that accurately. Please forgive me for not jumping on the 6.5 CM bandwagon. Thanks again for the excellent replies.
menhadenman
Senior Member
You made a fine choice - 243 will get the job done and has been very successful for far longer than many of the newfangled options out there. Keep us posted sounds like a sweet rig.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Within your comfort range out to 350yds, putting the right bullet exactly where it needs to be placed has the same end result from .243 on up. You didn't make a bad choice by choosing what you feel is best for you.
Dub
Senior Member
You gave it a lot of thought and made the decision that was best for you and chose the cartridge that best met your needs for your use.
Well done, sir.
Enjoy the range time with that new rifle.
Fun times ahead.
menhadenman
Senior Member
And let me know if you’re ever in Blairsville, I’ve got a pile of 243 we can test out. I got some I need to run through my son’s rifle soon.
buckpasser
Senior Member
Congrats! I want to hear how you like the Sauer. I want to buy one for my son some day (and maybe myself as well). I’ve become a big .243 fan and I wish you well on the coyotes and big game. I killed my first deer and only pronghorn with the Ruger M77 .243 that my Dad got me for my first rifle. If you ever get into the AR world for coyotes I’d still vote for a 6.5 G.
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SC Hunter
Senior Member
You made a fine choice with the 243. A 243 has killed a pile of deer and antelope and elk and probably moose. You won't be disappointed I'm sure! Congratulations on a new rifle!
Put the 243 Sauer on lay away as selling my Mosin and Enfield on Gunbroker to pay for it. Should have paid in full in early March. Just as a final check before buying the gun, I did come upon a very good rifle in 6.5 CM. The reviews on the Savage Magpul Hunter says under 1 MOA and even much smaller every time with factory ammo. Cherokee Gun and Pawn has them for $829. If it wasn't for the 18" barrel (I never will buy a suppressor), only comes in 6.5 CM and 308 and ugly looks, I might have gone that route. Looks like ideal for both hunting and target shooting. In 243 or 6.5 PRC, it would be some gun and may have gone that route in spite of the negatives. Oh well, must wait some time before next gun purchases which will be a K98 and a Colt 38 special WW2 4" barrel service revolver.
HughW2
Senior Member
Agreed, please let us know about experience with Sauer. I have heard all positives about Sauer. I would certainly consider it. Tikkas are great, but the ergonomics on their stock could be improved by my tastes.
Dub
Senior Member
Have you decided on how you’ll be scoping the new rifle ?
Gator89
Senior Member
Talley
Lightweight Alloy Scope Mounts Archives
LIGHTWEIGHT ALLOY SCOPE MOUNTS The one-piece construction of the Talley Lightweight Alloy Scope Mount is unique as it eliminates the possibility of
www.talleymanufacturing.com
menhadenman
Senior Member
Monstrum are cheap and solid if you don’t mind CCP products.
DNZ and Warne are solid USA products.
DNZ and Warne are solid USA products.
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