Can of Worms

[godogs57]

Every time I hear of a 500-1000 acre "Quality Buck Managed" club, I chuckle to myself...

It's pure folly.

The only exception is if there's a 12' inner curled chain link fence around the whole thing...

I have a nosey neighbor that adjoins the farm I hunt. He came up to me this fall as I was plowing in one of my food plots and informed me he was “trophy managing” the deer on his place and expected me to do the same. I don’t take kindly to people wandering onto ”my” farm and not asking, but telling, me how I’m expected to hunt. But, I held my temper for once because I was too busy working. For the record I do trophy manage to an extent….I don’t shoot the small stuff. That’s about as good as I can do since the farm isn’t 3,000 acres.

Ol trophy boy manages 15 acres.

 

[bany]

Since the worms are out I’m going to say yes, It is futile. You’re talking monster bucks. Without farm raised genetics and a high fence and Very few kills a year you won’t get some monster buck paradise.

 

[Havana Dude]

Since the worms are out I’m going to say yes, It is futile. You’re talking monster bucks. Without farm raised genetics and a high fence and Very few kills a year you won’t get some monster buck paradise.

You are largely correct.

The point of my post was, if you let the smaller bucks walk, you never know what’s coming out next. I’ve seen it too many times. Like I said, our intentions were never to think we were creating a 40 acre trophy buck paradise. We simply wanted to take a respectable bucks to the skinning shed. Since we implemented our little rule, there have been 2 6’s killed, both decent bucks, and the rest have ranged from 7-11 pts. , 3 of which were worthy of a mount for OUR area.

 

[27metalman]

Lot's of good comments here in this thread... You can feed, supplemental nutrients, and food plots to help with genetics, but you can't control the guys up the street or the property next door. Where I mostly hunt, I get and people I know get the same pics of deer that are 5-6 miles away. A good deer is in the eye of the beholder. What I pass, the next guy might not. This year, a buck I call "the mule" was right regular up till just after Thanksgiving. I've watched him 2-3 years now and he's nice... real nice. Looks like a mule deer with deep forks and no brows. I could have killed him a dozen times, but now I fear he's done for. I just hope that if someone did kill him, that they appreciate him. I'm in a position where I just didn't want to fill my tag with him. Here in Georgia, it's just hard to control an animal with "free will".

 

[Evergreen]

I have a nosey neighbor that adjoins the farm I hunt. He came up to me this fall as I was plowing in one of my food plots and informed me he was “trophy managing” the deer on his place and expected me to do the same. I don’t take kindly to people wandering onto ”my” farm and not asking, but telling, me how I’m expected to hunt. But, I held my temper for once because I was too busy working. For the record I do trophy manage to an extent….I don’t shoot the small stuff. That’s about as good as I can do since the farm isn’t 3,000 acres.

Ol trophy boy manages 15 acres.

Yeah, ive got a new neighbor like that, guys kinda annoying.

 

[JWT]

I hunt 40 acres. Ok, when y’all stop laughing...........

Years ago, we implemented a 4 point or better rule. Mainly due to being tired of having to measure every spike we killed. That worked to a degree. Then we went to 6 or better........ that worked to a degree. I’m personally at 8 or better at this point, and so far, have let one 8 and one 7 walk. The 8 was eventually taken by my son. I’m not under any illusion that we are “managing” a deer herd. Surrounding properties have been 8+ for years. I consistently take 1-2 8’s off this property yearly. We are in a dry time this year and we don’t do well when the swamp is dry. At this point, I’ll be happy to get one 8. My point is this about small properties. If you shoot the first deer that walks out, you’ll never know what might come out later. That’s how we operated for several years, and consistently killed barely legal deer.

Why would number of points matter, just curious to that thinking, seen alot of big mature 6 pts a lot bigger than 8 or 10, seen 10 pointers 2 yrs old that where 8 inches wide, so where do points come into play , I’ve got a big mature 7 pointer on the wall , that’s a lot bigger and older than the 17 point that I killed , just curious to that mindset

 

[buckpasser]

We have ample genetics most everywhere, but here’s why we don’t have a monster bucks every 20 acres:

Only something like 2-5% bucks can ever even be a “giant” even with the very best of care and the opportunity to reach maturity. That’s here and in the very best of trophy states.

It’s easy to talk about “150, 160, 170” and so on, but the truth is that a true 120” looks fabulous on the hoof and I bet no more that 5% of GA hunters pass one when encountered.

Finally, every wood lot is being hunted. There are very few spoiled deer that don’t spend time in someone’s binoculars, crosshairs, spot light, or thermal scope each year. Our biggest bucks on the plantation were filmed by hunters this year and seen by me. They are the lucky ones. I say just hunt and enjoy what you can. Trophy hunting is overrated.

 

[NWS]

Culling off the inferior bucks helps too plus it keeps the freezer filled.

 

[buckpasser]

Culling off the inferior bucks helps too plus it keeps the freezer filled.

I’m with you. Building up doe numbers is relatively easy. Trying to change the number of bucks per 100 ac, square mile, etc feels like trying to stack marbles.

 

[Havana Dude]

Why would number of points matter, just curious to that thinking, seen alot of big mature 6 pts a lot bigger than 8 or 10, seen 10 pointers 2 yrs old that where 8 inches wide, so where do points come into play , I’ve got a big mature 7 pointer on the wall , that’s a lot bigger and older than the 17 point that I killed , just curious to that mindset

I thought I stated the reason. We always shot any legal buck, for years. When I began hunting, a legal buck was 1” above hairline. Then went to 5” above hairline. Stayed that way many years. A few years ago, our zone is now at least 3 points on one side, or a 10” main beam. We simply adopted a group rule about points in order to take a little more respectable buck to the skinning rack. As I stated, we were under no illusion that we we “managing”, anything. Our swamp isn’t very conducive to being able to study an animal before taking a shot. Having said all that, our tactics have resulted in taking more 3.5 and 4.5 year old bucks, with body weights between 180 and 200 lbs., and has increased the number of bucks we see. One problem we have been experiencing in the last few years is low doe numbers. Only taken one doe in the last 3 years also. I’ve lost contact with the lease holder surrounding us(4500) acres, so I have no idea what they are doing. Another factor is we have a major hog problem.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Im going to take this to an extreme.

I just spent a few days at the King Ranch. The King Ranch was a pioneer of modern day game management and the state laws governing it.

I did a little hunting and got to see and learn about a large portion of their main hunting pasture called the Norias division which is over 200,000 acres and is low-fenced so game can still move about freely.

Lets just say that the smallest buck I saw that day was probably the second biggest buck I have ever seen in person and I saw close to 20. They call 140 class deer culls.

You might think this is a bit apples to oranges but all the same rules still apply.

1. The buck has to live a long time so it needs:
1a. Proper cover
1b. Proper shelter
1c. Proper nutrition
1c1. The buck needs adequate nutrition from being in utero with the doe to the age it becomes a "good" one.
1d. Proper climate for survival
1e. Has to be protected or lucky to survive untimely deaths from things like hunters or motor vehicles.

To name a few.

Basically a management plan can work out if: (assuming the above criteria are also met)

1. You have enough land to monitor the herd independent of anyone else’s involvement.

2. You have absolute control over all hunters as to which animals can be taken.

On small properties, assuming you are the only hunter, you can do things like put out food plots and feeders, cut trails to funnel the movement toward an ambush location, establish bedding and cover areas so deer will stay on your property some of the time, and try to keep hunting pressure down.

I hunt 30 acres and have “managed” it for 3 years now. I have done the above things and have seen progressively more bucks every year so far.

 

[kmckinnie]

I thought I stated the reason. We always shot any legal buck, for years. When I began hunting, a legal buck was 1” above hairline. Then went to 5” above hairline. Stayed that way many years. A few years ago, our zone is now at least 3 points on one side, or a 10” main beam. We simply adopted a group rule about points in order to take a little more respectable buck to the skinning rack. As I stated, we were under no illusion that we we “managing”, anything. Our swamp isn’t very conducive to being able to study an animal before taking a shot. Having said all that, our tactics have resulted in taking more 3.5 and 4.5 year old bucks, with body weights between 180 and 200 lbs., and has increased the number of bucks we see. One problem we have been experiencing in the last few years is low doe numbers. Only taken one doe in the last 3 years also. I’ve lost contact with the lease holder surrounding us(4500) acres, so I have no idea what they are doing. Another factor is we have a major hog problem.

Your 40 acres is butted up to the middle of nothing also.
Nice property.

 

[brownceluse]

I have 1,200 acres. I lose several bucks we are chasing every year to the neighbors. The neighbors have the same goals as us. Or so they say. But, I also have bucks show up I’ve never seen before. So, sometimes it’s a win, win. The moral of the story is if it isn’t fenced your not keeping them bucks and if it is fenced your not gonna get any cruisers.

 

[buckpasser]

I have 1,200 acres. I lose several bucks we are chasing every year to the neighbors. The neighbors have the same goals as us. Or so they say. But, I also have bucks show up I’ve never seen before. So, sometimes it’s a win, win. The moral of the story is if it isn’t fenced your not keeping them bucks and if it is fenced your not gonna get any cruisers.

I totally agree. So far we have never “received” a big mature buck with a nice rack as an outsider. We have gotten a few old bucks, but they won’t score much, and we’ve gotten some nice up and comers that aren’t old enough to be maxed out.

Seems like the really big ones are home grown for us.

 

[Mexican Squealer]

all these “number of points” rules do nothing but get two year old deer killed. “6pt or better rule”….seriously?

 

[HavocLover]

We have ample genetics most everywhere, but here’s why we don’t have a monster bucks every 20 acres:

Only something like 2-5% bucks can ever even be a “giant” even with the very best of care and the opportunity to reach maturity. That’s here and in the very best of trophy states.

It’s easy to talk about “150, 160, 170” and so on, but the truth is that a true 120” looks fabulous on the hoof and I bet no more that 5% of GA hunters pass one when encountered.

Finally, every wood lot is being hunted. There are very few spoiled deer that don’t spend time in someone’s binoculars, crosshairs, spot light, or thermal scope each year. Our biggest bucks on the plantation were filmed by hunters this year and seen by me. They are the lucky ones. I say just hunt and enjoy what you can. Trophy hunting is overrated.

Thats just it... everyone is a trophy hunter until the first 110" deer steps out in front of them. Then its either, "I thought he was bigger" , "hes an old warrior" , or "hes mature." Although theres a 90% chance said deer wasnt close to mature.

Also, I've worn this out on this forum, but social media. Due to social media, folks just feel like they HAVE to kill something every year. I consider myself a trophy hunter but I do have several different and varying standards for myself. My standards change depending on which property I'm hunting, public or private, and which weapon too. BUTTTTT one thing I have no problem with whatsoever is going scoreless. I've went years without killing a buck and I'm content with that. I'd rather go without killing one, than kill something I wasn't pleased with just for sake of killing and being able to say, "yep, I shot one this evening." I think thats one of the main ingredients in being a 'trophy hunter' is getting comfortable with the idea of maybe not killing but ever so often. You can throw the kitchen sink at 'trophy managing' but if you cant lay off the trigger, its all irrelevant.

On the flip side of that, I think being REALISTIC is a big part too. One of my leases, the neighbor is actually a friend of mine. He sent me a pic of a hammer 10 point. Mid 140s. I have him on camera too. He said theyre laying off of him cause hes 4.5yo. I'm all for trophy managing and I'm all for co-ops with the neighbors, but you have to have realistic expectations as well. I have 300 acres, the neighbor leases a similar sized tract, in TIMBER COMPANY heaven Georgia. This isnt the golden triangle of IL, it isnt SE IA... a mid 140s 4.5 yo is about as big as hes gonna get and as old as hes gonna get if he comes by me in GA.

More to the meat and potatoes of the original post... yes, 1k acres is always the magic number that comes up in these discussions. With that acreage, you can 'keep and hold' deer. With anything less, you can still by all means do whatever you want to 'manage' the herd, but you have to understand those deer will be on other folks property and in front of their cameras. And while that deer is in your pocket cause all the feed youre throwing at him and you think he needs another year, the guy next door that has him daylighting on camera probably thinks hes just perfect.

 

[Gator89]

all these “number of points” rules do nothing but get two year old deer killed. “6pt or better rule”….seriously?

The group next to us has an 8 point rule (4 on one side). But they will shoot any 8 point, regardless of age, body size or rack size.

The owner of the property stated, if he is an 8 point, he has to go!

 

[Long Cut]

I have a large several thousand acre lease and two smaller 100 & 61 acre tracts.

The 61 is managed QDM and in a Co-Op with all adjacent neighbors.
100 is just a cattle farm with small wood lots surrounded by hunt clubs.

There’s more mature bucks on the 61 & 100 acres than there is on the ~7,000 acre lease.

Poor management of the 7,000 acres can make it hunt worse than 61 acres.

I understand it may be hard to realize that, but if you’ve got 1 hunter per 30-50 acres shooting anything they want for decades.....

We’re Conservationists first and Hunters second. There was once a time deer nearly became extinct here.