Converting Jews to Christianity

[oldfella1962]

Okay bullethead mentioned something interesting in another AA&A thread: "As far as I can tell nowhere in the writings we use today does Jesus ever ask or command anyone to start a religion around him and abandon the Judaism he himself followed".

I provided a link about Christians in Israel converting Jews to Christianity. Here are my thoughts: it seems a little arrogant and insulting to me, and here is why: while I am (no doubt) dumbing this down and simplifying things, many practicing Jews already believe that a "Messiah" will come eventually to be the warrior/king to rule over a new "world" in their own version of the "end times" for lack of a better word. But there are specific requirements for a Messiah, and Jesus did not meet those requirements. So for Christians to go to Israel (the home of Judaism) and expect them to accept Jesus (A Jew himself who knew all about the requirements for a Messiah and their dogma/traditions in general) as their "personal savior" or be tortured for all eternity in a lake of fire takes some serious chutzpa! I'm sure not blaming Jews who take an "excuse me, but who are you to tell us that we are 'doing it wrong' when we invented the religion that your "savior' was part of for every day he spent on this planet during his brief life!" I would think that if Christians want to tell other Christians that they are "doing it wrong" they absolutely have that right. But to tell Jews - who have the same God as the Christians - that Jesus was the next step in the process, and that it just makes sense that they should accept Jesus as the Son of their God and their savior - is being a little forward to say the least. Any thoughts?

Evangelicals trying to convert Jews: A fair price for Christian support for Israel? | Opinion | Opinion

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[brutally honest]

For a time, the entire early church was made up of converted Jews. Peter’s sermon in Acts 2 was to a 100% Jewish audience. Paul and Apollos went into synagogues teaching that Jesus is the Messiah.

 

[brutally honest]

Okay bullethead mentioned something interesting in another AA&A thread: "As far as I can tell nowhere in the writings we use today does Jesus ever ask or command anyone to start a religion around him and abandon the Judaism he himself followed".

Matthew 28:18-20:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[brutally honest]

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 

[Ruger#3]

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[b]:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

[brutally honest]

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[b]:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

This ^^^^

It’s not a new religion. It’s a new covenant.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Okay bullethead mentioned something interesting in another AA&A thread: "As far as I can tell nowhere in the writings we use today does Jesus ever ask or command anyone to start a religion around him and abandon the Judaism he himself followed".

I provided a link about Christians in Israel converting Jews to Christianity. Here are my thoughts: it seems a little arrogant and insulting to me, and here is why: while I am (no doubt) dumbing this down and simplifying things, many practicing Jews already believe that a "Messiah" will come eventually to be the warrior/king to rule over a new "world" in their own version of the "end times" for lack of a better word. But there are specific requirements for a Messiah, and Jesus did not meet those requirements. So for Christians to go to Israel (the home of Judaism) and expect them to accept Jesus (A Jew himself who knew all about the requirements for a Messiah and their dogma/traditions in general) as their "personal savior" or be tortured for all eternity in a lake of fire takes some serious chutzpa! I'm sure not blaming Jews who take an "excuse me, but who are you to tell us that we are 'doing it wrong' when we invented the religion that your "savior' was part of for every day he spent on this planet during his brief life!" I would think that if Christians want to tell other Christians that they are "doing it wrong" they absolutely have that right. But to tell Jews - who have the same God as the Christians - that Jesus was the next step in the process, and that it just makes sense that they should accept Jesus as the Son of their God and their savior - is being a little forward to say the least. Any thoughts?

Evangelicals trying to convert Jews: A fair price for Christian support for Israel? | Opinion | Opinion

***

www.haaretz.com

I'm going no further into this than point out the obvious: there are multiple false statements in your post that are obvious to anyone who has even casually read the Bible. There's a concept called intellectually integrity and this post is proof positive you don't possess it. To attempt a truthful discussion with someone who has no intellectual integrity is a fools errand. Here's why. Unless both parties forsake all regard for truth, discussion is impossible. If both parties do forsake all regard for truth, the discussion becomes pointless. In short, you can lie to yourself or commit to intellectual integrity and have a discussion, but you can't do both unless you are engaging with a fool. Bye

 

[Spotlite]

For clarification - I think you missed the whole idea of this Christian thing.

You don’t convert no one by telling them they’re wrong. They’re only converted when they feel there’s more to it than what they have or have been told.

 

[Spotlite]

Okay bullethead mentioned something interesting in another AA&A thread: "As far as I can tell nowhere in the writings we use today does Jesus ever ask or command anyone to start a religion around him and abandon the Judaism he himself followed".

I provided a link about Christians in Israel converting Jews to Christianity. Here are my thoughts: it seems a little arrogant and insulting to me, and here is why: while I am (no doubt) dumbing this down and simplifying things, many practicing Jews already believe that a "Messiah" will come eventually to be the warrior/king to rule over a new "world" in their own version of the "end times" for lack of a better word. But there are specific requirements for a Messiah, and Jesus did not meet those requirements. So for Christians to go to Israel (the home of Judaism) and expect them to accept Jesus (A Jew himself who knew all about the requirements for a Messiah and their dogma/traditions in general) as their "personal savior" or be tortured for all eternity in a lake of fire takes some serious chutzpa! I'm sure not blaming Jews who take an "excuse me, but who are you to tell us that we are 'doing it wrong' when we invented the religion that your "savior' was part of for every day he spent on this planet during his brief life!" I would think that if Christians want to tell other Christians that they are "doing it wrong" they absolutely have that right. But to tell Jews - who have the same God as the Christians - that Jesus was the next step in the process, and that it just makes sense that they should accept Jesus as the Son of their God and their savior - is being a little forward to say the least. Any thoughts?

Evangelicals trying to convert Jews: A fair price for Christian support for Israel? | Opinion | Opinion

***

www.haaretz.com

Just for kicks and grins - list those requirements that Jesus did not from their source, the source that listed them. Show us the ones not met and give us the timeframe they must be met - such as save His people…….tell us based on the requirement how and when.

 

[1gr8buildit]

Consider this; Jesus as God, they will never accept. But, Jesus as a man, whom pleased God..... The Jewish belief is not that far apart with the exception that Jesus has already come. EDIT. Death might be a little bitty issue

 

[bullethead]

Consider this; Jesus as God, they will never accept. But, Jesus as a man, whom pleased God..... The Jewish belief is not that far apart with the exception that Jesus has already come. EDIT. Death might be a little bitty issue

The Jews as a whole are still waiting for their Messiah. Throughout their history they have had many men do many things (some fulfilled even more requirements than Jesus) that got many Jews to follow them as their Messiah. The majority of Jews over time have still stuck together in waiting, but charismatic leaders get followers too. History is full of them.It isn't outlandish to believe that some Jews have been convinced that Jesus was/is their guy also.
When a person wants something badly enough, or wants to be a part of something badly enough, it doesn't take much convincing by a good salesman to get them to go along with it.

 

[oldfella1962]

For a time, the entire early church was made up of converted Jews. Peter’s sermon in Acts 2 was to a 100% Jewish audience. Paul and Apollos went into synagogues teaching that Jesus is the Messiah.

Interesting! I can't imagine the average Jew buying into Jesus being the Messiah when the role of the Messiah is different than the Christian role of savior. But perhaps Judaism was going through a lot of schisms and whatnot at the time and might have been different than the Judaism that developed centuries later. Just like Christianity has a long winding history, Judaism would too.

 

[oldfella1962]

"Just for kicks and grins - list those requirements that Jesus did not from their source, the source that listed them. Show us the ones not met and give us the timeframe they must be met - such as save His people…….tell us based on the requirement how and when". - Spotlight

Here is a link that incorporates what I have been reading & hearing from various sources here & there online. Also, it breaks off into links explaining things in ever greater detail. Everyone can read this article way faster than I could write things out. So without further ado, here is the basic gist of why Jesus works great for Christianity, but not for Jews.

Jewish views on Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[oldfella1962]

Consider this; Jesus as God, they will never accept. But, Jesus as a man, whom pleased God..... The Jewish belief is not that far apart with the exception that Jesus has already come. EDIT. Death might be a little bitty issue

Yes many Jews - and atheists - and Muslims - and Thomas Jefferson (google the Thomas Jefferson edited Bible) and many other people accept Jesus as a human being who actually existed and preached.

 

[Spotlite]

Here is a link that incorporates what I have been reading & hearing from various sources here & there online. Also, it breaks off into links explaining things in ever greater detail. Everyone can read this article way faster than I could write things out. So without further ado, here is the basic gist of why Jesus works great for Christianity, but not for Jews.

Jewish views on Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Links aren’t reliable sources. Those are biased opinions. For every pro, there’s a con.

Here’s a link that can go into greater detail as to how and why Jesus is the Messiah.

KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE

King James Bible Online, the Authorized King James Version (KJV) of the Bible- the preserved and living Word of God. Includes New Testament KJV and Old Testament KJV.

m.kingjamesbibleonline.org

 

[GeorgiaBob]

There are a significant number of practicing Jews who believe that Jesus is the Messiah. "Christian" Jews have been around since the day Jesus spoke to a few folks outside of his tomb. They come in all shapes and sizes, even have different practices among different groups. I knew a Rabbi who led a congregation of about 300 Jews who celebrated the Risen Messiah and kept all of the Jewish holy days.

The one striking difference I have noted is the Jewish believers I know generally stick to the Jewish tradition of NOT proselytizing.

 

[bullethead]

Interesting! I can't imagine the average Jew buying into Jesus being the Messiah when the role of the Messiah is different than the Christian role of savior. But perhaps Judaism was going through a lot of schisms and whatnot at the time and might have been different than the Judaism that developed centuries later. Just like Christianity has a long winding history, Judaism would too.

A couple hundred to thousands of years ago, many people were constantly on the search for their next leader or god to bring them out of the rule of their current lives and situations. Not much different than today except that people have more distractions to occupy themselves with.
Regarding the ancient Jews, their history is full of men who had followers in Messiah roles which eventually fizzled out. Some of the followers didn't stop believing in them even after they failed.
The rest who moved on are still awaiting the arrival much like other people who are still awaiting a return.

 

[oldfella1962]

Links aren’t reliable sources. Those are biased opinions. For every pro, there’s a con.

Here’s a link that can go into greater detail as to how and why Jesus is the Messiah.

KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE

King James Bible Online, the Authorized King James Version (KJV) of the Bible- the preserved and living Word of God. Includes New Testament KJV and Old Testament KJV.

m.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Let me see if I have this right: my links are not reliable sources because they are biased opinions, but your inks to the Bible are reliable sources and not biased opinions? Granted I personally do not believe the Bible to be a reliable source, if you are using the Bible directly as a source. The Bible was written by biased humans with an agenda as far as I know.
Like you said - and I agree with you - for every pro, there's a con.

 

[bullethead]

Links aren’t reliable sources. Those are biased opinions. For every pro, there’s a con.

Here’s a link that can go into greater detail as to how and why Jesus is the Messiah.

KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE

King James Bible Online, the Authorized King James Version (KJV) of the Bible- the preserved and living Word of God. Includes New Testament KJV and Old Testament KJV.

m.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Some links back their claims up with historical facts and evidence.
Some try their best to fit things into where they don't belong.

 

[Spotlite]

Let me see if I have this right: my links are not reliable sources because they are biased opinions, but your inks to the Bible are reliable sources and not biased opinions? Granted I personally do not believe the Bible to be a reliable source, if you are using the Bible directly as a source. The Bible was written by biased humans with an agenda as far as I know.
Like you said - and I agree with you - for every pro, there's a con.

Lol not exactly, but you see how that works.

But for years it’s been established here “don’t post a link without explanation”

You’re saying Jesus didn’t fulfill the requirements, I want to know from you the requirements He didn’t fulfill and which ones had time-stamps on them that had to be fulfilled before or after death, etc. Prophecy is “things to come”