Converting the dying

[Israel]

You just....

reinforced my point -


If God created us all, wouldn't that make us ALL his own?
Or are some of us the ones that he dropped off at the orphanage because we have behavioral issues?
"here you take 'em, I'm Omni-everything but I just cant deal with them. But believe me they will pay in the end".

Great parent.

Are you admitting God has made you, and you are not your own?

If God created us all, wouldn't that make us ALL his own?

His sheep know His voice, does He comfort you?

Sheep and lost sheep are all of one to Him. He collects as He goes, knowing what is His.

I am simply in the process of being "found".

 

[WaltL1]

Are you admitting God has made you, and you are not your own?



His sheep know His voice, does He comfort you?

Sheep and lost sheep are all of one to Him. He collects as He goes, knowing what is His.

I am simply in the process of being "found".

Are you admitting God has made you, and you are not your own?

No.
Once its proven that the Christian God exists and then proven that the Christian story about this Christian God is IN FACT true.... then I will readily and wholeheartedly admit it.
Until then, my parents made me.
The question was -

If God created us all, wouldn't that make us ALL his own?

Remember I'm a simple guy. Either Yes or No would be great.

 

[groundhawg]

That one is more easily answered.

Then please answer it.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

No.
Once its proven that the Christian God exists and then proven that the Christian story about this Christian God is IN FACT true.... then I will readily and wholeheartedly admit it.

might be to late then.

 

[WaltL1]

might be to late then.

That might be true.
There are a number of gods who's followers credit them with having made us.
If you don't believe any of them and one of them is right, we are both sitting in the "might be too late" boat.

 

[atlashunter]

Then please answer it.

They don't think it exists, they don't share in the opinion it's a desirable place, or they have a different take on how to get there.

 

[Israel]

No.
Once its proven that the Christian God exists and then proven that the Christian story about this Christian God is IN FACT true.... then I will readily and wholeheartedly admit it.
Until then, my parents made me.
The question was -

Remember I'm a simple guy. Either Yes or No would be great.

The first assumption/proposition is faulty to me, if others care to defend it, or endorse it in some way, that is up to them. There is to me, no "christian" god.

Whether one approaches it on the face of it, as in, God is christian, as there are "christian people", well, I am inclined to think most would see that in almost the same manner I do.
But even if one takes it to another level such as "the God of the Christians", I am no more inclined to receive.


God over all. The God above all gods. The supreme of all. The One by whose word all and every bit of what is seen and unseen is held and sustained. And here it matters not (at least to me at this point of exchange) whether one prefers to say "by His will" or "choice" or "exercise of His power and authority" such is kept to His order. He is not more the "christian God"or even "God of the christians" than He could be less than God in any manner. The God who is God.

He, above all...is the other, at least as far as our words...(which are mere metaphor for concepts) could contain, he is the meaning of all, not by reflection or description, such as of what we vainly try and capture in our own words. Ineffable of all that is most...ineffable. (Which is no less a vanity of my speech)

Beheld in merest part, as the Beholder of all.
The sustainer in Whom is all substance of sustaining.
In Whom all the greatest part we may see and know, (even what we may call the universe) is held as merest part.

And yet, He is all that fills Jesus Christ. He is the self sacrificing God. And His children recognize Him in the One whom He has sent. And it pleases Him to be seen of His children.

 

[Israel]

I hope you do not mind Walt if I add this. In considering what I had written in the above I realize there may, and possibly must, appear at least a few paradoxes.

The first and most obvious would be (at least as I see it) "how can what is other (to each other) ever establish a place of communing/relating/understanding?" And if I am called by you to sustain the words I have written to you (and rightly so) I find it would be more than fair to be forced to consider this question:
"If God is totally other how can anyone (and Israel surely included) say anything to anyone about Him? Shouldn't he (Israel) at the very least then be shut up to his understanding knowing he cannot (as admittedly finite) and recognize he cannot, possibly have anything to say about the infinite and eternal, again, in the very least, to be consistent to what he says he believes of the thing he has called God?"


And you'd not be wrong to say that.

But you'd also not be wrong to ask "why then, do you speak?"

But in all of it, and for all of it, we would have to use word.

 

[WaltL1]

I hope you do not mind Walt if I add this. In considering what I had written in the above I realize there may, and possibly must, appear at least a few paradoxes.

The first and most obvious would be (at least as I see it) "how can what is other (to each other) ever establish a place of communing/relating/understanding?" And if I am called by you to sustain the words I have written to you (and rightly so) I find it would be more than fair to be forced to consider this question:
"If God is totally other how can anyone (and Israel surely included) say anything to anyone about Him? Shouldn't he (Israel) at the very least then be shut up to his understanding knowing he cannot (as admittedly finite) and recognize he cannot, possibly have anything to say about the infinite and eternal, again, in the very least, to be consistent to what he says he believes of the thing he has called God?"


And you'd not be wrong to say that.

But you'd also not be wrong to ask "why then, do you speak?"

But in all of it, and for all of it, we would have to use word.

Remember I'm a simple guy. Either Yes or No would be great.

I think I would have been disappointed if you had actually responded with a simple yes or no.

 

[atlashunter]

I think I would have been disappointed if you had actually responded with a simple yes or no.

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...

 

[WaltL1]

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...

While I don't believe Israel is intentionally B S 'ing anybody that definitely made me chuckle

 

[j_seph]

GeorgiaBob,

Is God omniscient and omnipotent? If he is then there is no free will. That god is sovereign and is in control and knowledgeable of every blade of grass and every stray bullet. I'm going by the definitions of the words omniscient and omnipotent.

Here is another little read I got this morning about free will

"Free Will

Genesis 2:15-17

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did you know, that at the beginning of time, God gave us a very important gift? The gift He gave us wasn’t life, or work, or authority, or companionship – although those are very important things that did He give to us. But God gave us something very powerful that most of us don’t even realize: He gave each of us the ability to choose. He gave us the gift of free will.

We may think that we know what free will is, and yes, it is a choice. God could have created us as drones in the garden, robots to do His bidding – (which would have been far easier), but He didn’t. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:26 & 27

However, we as believers do much of the world a disservice when we expect people to abide by the same rules and belief systems that we do. I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase, “To love is to let go.” If a choice is forced upon someone, then it really isn’t their choice. But God is a good, loving God, drawing each of us to repentance by His goodness. ”Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? Romans 2:4

We shouldn’t be people who expect the world to live by our standards. Instead, we should be the ones to love and serve the world, creating an example that your best life is lived with God, surrounded by a community of people who love others and want to serve them too. And, most of all, who have really understood what it means to accept Jesus’ free unmerited gift of precious eternal life and live in His abundant love, grace, and joy, through our own choice.

Do you know how powerful this precious gift of free will is? Pray today that you would use your free will to bless and benefit others, so that more and more people could come into relationship with a loving God who cares about them so deeply."

 

[Israel]

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...

I know what you obviously do not.

I am a complete fabrication. I needn't invent any.

 

[atlashunter]

Just one little problem with that j seph. Heaven is mostly populated with people that had no choice in the matter.

 

[Israel]

Just one little problem with that j seph. Heaven is mostly populated with people that had no choice in the matter.

And also no regret about it.

 

[ambush80]

Here is another little read I got this morning about free will

"Free Will

Genesis 2:15-17

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did you know, that at the beginning of time, God gave us a very important gift? The gift He gave us wasn’t life, or work, or authority, or companionship – although those are very important things that did He give to us. But God gave us something very powerful that most of us don’t even realize: He gave each of us the ability to choose. He gave us the gift of free will.

We may think that we know what free will is, and yes, it is a choice. God could have created us as drones in the garden, robots to do His bidding – (which would have been far easier), but He didn’t. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:26 & 27

However, we as believers do much of the world a disservice when we expect people to abide by the same rules and belief systems that we do. I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase, “To love is to let go.” If a choice is forced upon someone, then it really isn’t their choice. But God is a good, loving God, drawing each of us to repentance by His goodness. ”Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? Romans 2:4

We shouldn’t be people who expect the world to live by our standards. Instead, we should be the ones to love and serve the world, creating an example that your best life is lived with God, surrounded by a community of people who love others and want to serve them too. And, most of all, who have really understood what it means to accept Jesus’ free unmerited gift of precious eternal life and live in His abundant love, grace, and joy, through our own choice.

Do you know how powerful this precious gift of free will is? Pray today that you would use your free will to bless and benefit others, so that more and more people could come into relationship with a loving God who cares about them so deeply."

Did God know whether or not they were gonna eat it? Does God know if I'm gonna go to Heaven or not? How long did He know these things? The answers are Yes. Yes, and Forever. Where is my freewill to do other than what God has seen?

Can you sin in Heaven? Can you have impure thoughts in Heaven? No? Heaven is filled with the drones and robots you mention.

I would prefer you not believe in such things but if you do, at least fully understand what you believe.

 

[j_seph]

Did God know whether or not they were gonna eat it? Does God know if I'm gonna go to Heaven or not? How long did He know these things? The answers are Yes. Yes, and Forever. Where is my freewill to do other than what God has seen?

Can you sin in Heaven? Can you have impure thoughts in Heaven? No? Heaven is filled with the drones and robots you mention.

I would prefer you not believe in such things but if you do, at least fully understand what you believe.

If he knew they would eat it then why tell them not to?

 

[atlashunter]

If he knew they would eat it then why tell them not to?

Good question

 

[bullethead]

If he knew they would eat it then why tell them not to?

Right!
Sounds like the limitations of man and not the work of a god.

 

[Spotlite]

If he knew they would eat it then why tell them not to?

He knew that Peter would deny him also. I know that my son is going to “forget” to take the trash off half of the time; me knowing that he will forget most times, I still tell him everyday to get it.

Knowing what someone will do and controlling them to do it are separate.