Faith in Randomness

[stringmusic]

Be serious, you had to be snickering when you wrote this right?
I mean because your asking others to provide what you yourself cannot.

Don't worry about my evidence, I don't have any that you accept, I'm asking for yours.

Whereas every star up in the sky provides the probability of an earth like we know it and planets that may be habitable by life unlike ours.

You're a man of great faith Bullet.

 

[bullethead]

Where? I'm only aware of one.

Crack open a google search

No, space goo hasn't always been around, do you want to go over the fact that matter can't be eternal agian?

Matter is renewable

 

[bullethead]

Don't worry about my evidence, I don't have any that you accept, I'm asking for yours.

I'll provide just one of the many examples:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2022489,00.html

You're a man of great faith Bullet.

Fortunately for me your wrong. Unlike your invisible buddy, there are actual real suns and planets that we can see. Some are in the right "zone" as our planet is to our sun. I'm just following the odds, not the imaginations of ancient tribes.

 

[bullethead]

Don't worry about my evidence, I don't have any that you accept

You don't have any evidence of anything outside of your mind. You don't have anything that is acceptable to anyone that asks for actual evidence.

 

[stringmusic]

Crack open a google search

If I wanted to figure it out myself, I would have googled it, I want to have a conversation with you about it.

Matter is renewable

Matter is not eternal.

 

[stringmusic]

I'll provide just one of the many examples:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2022489,00.html

Ok, so there is a planet that has a chance to be kinda like earth. When are you going to provide me with some evidence that there are other earths, with water and food and beings etc, etc. You made the outrageous claim that other earths exist.

I want undeniable proof, not your fantasies, or hope that there are other planets. I want pictures of the beings, I want to drink some of the water off the other planet, and eat some new cuisine.

Fortunately for me your wrong. Unlike your invisible buddy, there are actual real suns and planets that we can see. Some are in the right "zone" as our planet is to our sun. I'm just following the odds, not the imaginations of ancient tribes.

Nice straw man, but I'm not arguing that suns and planets don't exist. I want proof that other "earths" exists, not just a chance that other "earths" exist. I don't buy into your strong faith.

 

[stringmusic]

You don't have any evidence of anything outside of your mind. You don't have anything that is acceptable to anyone that asks for actual evidence.

I just removed your name and put mine, 'cause I could say the same for you.

 

[bullethead]

Ok, so there is a planet that has a chance to be kinda like earth. When are you going to provide me with some evidence that there are other earths, with water and food and beings etc, etc. You made the outrageous claim that other earths exist.

You asked about other earths and I gave you real planets that are similar in distance from their sun just like ours.
Now you want fully stocked grocery shelves and a ticker tape parade.

I want undeniable proof, not your fantasies, or hope that there are other planets. I want pictures of the beings, I want to drink some of the water off the other planet, and eat some new cuisine.

You asked for an earth like planet(s) and I gave them to you. Nobody, especially me, said anything about these other earths being exactly like ours. But there is undeniable fact that these earth type planets exist. They are within similar distances from their sun as we are and they are of similar size as our earth is. Conditions are similar to ours and they are considered to be as close to our planet as we have observed.
Build your own rocket.

Nice straw man, but I'm not arguing that suns and planets don't exist. I want proof that other "earths" exists, not just a chance that other "earths" exist. I don't buy into your strong faith.

Where is the straw man?

 

[stringmusic]

You asked about other earths and I gave you real planets that are similar in distance from their sun just like ours.
Now you want fully stocked grocery shelves and a ticker tape parade.


You asked for an earth like planet(s) and I gave them to you. Nobody, especially me, said anything about these other earths being exactly like ours. But there is undeniable fact that these earth type planets exist. They are within similar distances from their sun as we are and they are of similar size as our earth is. Conditions are similar to ours and they are considered to be as close to our planet as we have observed.
Build your own rocket.

You made this statement....

Plenty of "earths" around.

When you said there were plenty of other earths around, I thought you meant there were plenty of other earths around, meaning just like earth, and you have yet to provide any evidence for your assertion.

Showing that other planets exists that are also round and in the correct "zone" isn't evidence for a planet like ours. That's why I want irrefutable evidence that a planet exactly like earth exists complete with water samples and delicious food. Just give me the evidence that it would take for you to believe in the God of the bible.

Where is the straw man?

Unlike your invisible buddy, there are actual real suns and planets that we can see.

You argued the fact that real suns and planets that we can see exist, I wasn't arguing they didn't, hence the straw man.

 

[bullethead]

You made this statement....

When you said there were plenty of other earths around, I thought you meant there were plenty of other earths around, meaning just like earth, and you have yet to provide any evidence for your assertion.

Showing that other planets exists that are also round and in the correct "zone" isn't evidence for a planet like ours. That's why I want irrefutable evidence that a planet exactly like earth exists complete with water samples and delicious food.

You change the criteria after the fact. I gave you earths, now you want specific details included to suit your needs. Now it must be "exactly" like earth with water samples and delicious food......
If inhabitants drank lava and the food was not to your taste you would still have left yourself an escape route.
I can't do any more than give real honest physical examples of planets that are similar to ours. You want me to include a bullethead and stringmusic having an internet peeing match on those planets too.........good luck with that.

Just give me the evidence that it would take for you to believe in the God of the bible.

Scientists can see these planets with telescopes and instruments on spacecraft that we sent out to find such planets. Technology is not great enough to get us there yet, but we can see they exist.
On the other hand..
No God, No where, no picture, no physical evidence, nothing.

You argued the fact that real suns and planets that we can see exist, I wasn't arguing they didn't, hence the straw man.

A few of those planets are similar to ours, since you do not argue their existence, you have your evidence.

 

[bullethead]

I'll give you some reading for the weekend and if you can send me some similar articles that nasa and scientists have found god I'll be sure to read those.
We can chat about each on Monday.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/01/many-earth-like-planets/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-19514_3-5...-planet-found-in-distant-suns-habitable-zone/

http://www.newser.com/story/111165/5-new-earth-like-planets-spotted.html

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/ten-billion-earths/

http://news.discovery.com/space/alien-life-exoplanets/earth-like-planet-life.htm

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/may-500-000-earth-planets-galaxy-alone-192855359.html

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2022489,00.html

 

[stringmusic]

You change the criteria after the fact. I gave you earths, now you want specific details included to suit your needs. Now it must be "exactly" like earth with water samples and delicious food......
If inhabitants drank lava and the food was not to your taste you would still have left yourself an escape route.
I can't do any more than give real honest physical examples of planets that are similar to ours. You want me to include a bullethead and stringmusic having an internet peeing match on those planets too.........good luck with that.


Scientists can see these planets with telescopes and instruments on spacecraft that we sent out to find such planets. Technology is not great enough to get us there yet, but we can see they exist.
On the other hand..
No God, No where, no picture, no physical evidence, nothing.

You said there are other earths, I thought you meant there are other earths, obviously you meant there are other planets kinda like earth.

Those other planets aren't really like earth if they don't have trees and plants and people and food and etc, etc.

 

[bullethead]

You said there are other earths, I thought you meant there are other earths, obviously you meant there are other planets kinda like earth.

Those other planets aren't really like earth if they don't have trees and plants and people and food and etc, etc.

Cmon string, they may very well have life, water, ice...who knows what but if your looking for an exact mirror image of what we have going on here your only fooling yourself.
I'm not making any wild claims. I am going by evidence put forth by our scientists.

 

[TheBishop]

Matter is not eternal.

How is something that can be neither created or destroyed not be eternal?

 

[bullethead]

How is something that can be neither created or destroyed not be eternal?

One of the best writings by a yahoo user that I have seen on the subject:

God, The Creator, Trumped By The First Law Of Thermodynamics

First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy is neither created nor destroyed but it may be transformed from one kind into another.
Einstein suggested that energy and matter are interchangeable (E=mc2).

My theory is that man’s thinking is myopic and egocentric. Just as man used to think that the Earth was the center of the universe. The fact that man is mortal, that he is born and then dies, makes him think that the universe must have been created. I propose that the universe did not have a creation; it has always existed and always will. The universe is made of matter and energy in motion throughout time. The universe in total is the only perpetual motion machine.
Energy (and matter) can neither be created nor destroyed implies that it has always existed and always will. Since it has always existed it was not created by God. This renders the question “Who created God?” moot. This also invalidates any “cause” for the universe because it always “was” and “is” and always “will ” exist. Existence exists.
Be brave. Follow the reasoning. The Big Bang cosmology model becomes a repeating cycle event of expansion and then contraction and then expansion again etc. etc. etc.
Life on the other hand did have a beginning and most probably will have an end. The conditions for life probably only exist for a certain limited amount of time within a Big bang cycle.
Time can only be relative from one moment to another since there is no beginning (creation). You can relatively date our universe as being 12 to 14 billion years old, which is the age of the current Big Bang cycle we’re in.
Human consciousness and self-awareness seems miraculous but can be explained through cosmological and biological evolution. The early cycle of a Big Bang is a very hot place. Very early in a Big Bang, the temperature of the universe is roughly 10 billion degrees filled with a soup of sub-atomic particles and energy (neutrons, protons, electrons, etc. etc. and electromagnetic radiation). As the universe expands and cools hydrogen, helium and traces of lithium form and attract each other and become stars. Elements heavier than lithium are generated in stars through nuclear fusion up to iron. Elements heavier than iron are produced in super-giant stars or in supernovae explosions. This is cosmological evolution. All carbon-based life on earth is made of recycled stardust.
Life began from ever-increasing self-replicating complex molecules and about 3.5 billion years ago an original primordial single cell organism arose who all life on earth is descended. With the long slow gradual process of evolution through natural selection we arrive at the human brain, which creates the concept of God by egocentric default to explain the unexplainable. God did not create the universe. Man created God.

 

[Thanatos]

One of the best writings by a yahoo user that I have seen on the subject:

You call it a singularity and we call it God. We have faith that He exist, and you have faith that He does not exist. Nothing special or different in that quote. It is the same thing we've been discussing for awhile now.

 

[bullethead]

You call it a singularity and we call it God. We have faith that He exist, and you have faith that He does not exist. Nothing special or different in that quote. It is the same thing we've been discussing for awhile now.

To a point your are somewhat right. The deciding factor for me is that when I take all available evidence for both sides and I take all the newest information that continually is found and I factor in actual facts I make my choice by actual factual evidence.
Now I am not saying all the information on the side I choose it 100%...yet, but over the years of human advancement we have constantly been making progress in science while the old religious tales have been not holding their own. Faith vs Facts. No problem for a "believer" to look past one to the other for he wants/needs to be right, but please do not insert magical invisible friends to try to explain gaps in what science is slowly but surely figuring out.

 

[Thanatos]

To a point your are somewhat right. The deciding factor for me is that when I take all available evidence for both sides and I take all the newest information that continually is found and I factor in actual facts I make my choice by actual factual evidence.
Now I am not saying all the information on the side I choose it 100%...yet, but over the years of human advancement we have constantly been making progress in science while the old religious tales have been not holding their own. Faith vs Facts. No problem for a "believer" to look past one to the other for he wants/needs to be right, but please do not insert magical invisible friends to try to explain gaps in what science is slowly but surely figuring out.

I am a big proponent and believer in science and God being in a synergistic relationship. BUT! There are two things that happened that goes against rational belief and the forces of science that run the cosmos. That would be a man who lived a perfect life. Then, that man dying and being raised again 3 days later.

 

[Asath]

And you can offer exactly no evidence whatsoever that such a thing ever happened.

 

[Thanatos]

And you can offer exactly no evidence whatsoever that such a thing ever happened.

Exactley. If I had the evidence that my rational mind craved then I would not need to have faith. This is not easy for me. I'm in a constant battle to beat back my ego and be more submissive to God. If I were a better Christian I probably would not have this problem but I am working on it.