God Does Not Predestinate Any Particular Person To Be Saved Or Lost

[BanjoPicker]

THERE ARE NO CONCRETE EXAMPLES OF GOD SAVING SOME MEN AND DAM-ING OTHERS SOLELY BECAUSE OF HIS OWN CHOICE.

It is true that no man can be saved except God deals with him (Jn. 6:37, 44) and that God's people are called His only possession (Eph. 1:14), but this does not mean that God does not deal with all men, or that all men who desire cannot become the people of God. The Holy Spirit is faithful to deal with all men as they, here the gospel (Rom. 10:9-17; Jn. 16:7-15). The Bible speaks of Christ being the light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world (Jn 1:9). No man has been saved or has been forced to stay saved against his will. Because men are born of God's will and not their own (Jn. 1:13) is no proof that they are saved only because of God's will. It simply means that salvation has not been provided by the will of man, but it is also true that God cannot and will not save one man if he himself does not will it (Jn. 3:16-20; 22:17; 1 Tim. 4:10; Mk. 16:15, 16). It is God's will to save all, but all are not saved, so it must also take the will of man in accepting the gospel for him to be saved.

 

[BanjoPicker]

ALL OF DOD'S BLESSINGS ARE CONDITIONAL AND THE VERY NATURE OF THE CASE PROVES THAT GOD DOES NOT DETERMINE BEFOREHAND THE ACTS OF FREE MORAL AGENTS.

The blessing of God upon every person is conditioned upon personal faith and conformity to the gospel, not upon predetermined choices of God. Metting gospel conditions such as repentance and faith are not works that purchase salvation but are necessary requirements to be saved, if one wants the salvation purchased by the blood of Christ. Choosing to eat a meal prepared by someone does not earn the meal, but it is necessary to eat if one wants the benefits of the food provided for him.

If God should seek to save and keep rebels contrary to their wills, He would break His own laws and fail to carry out His own plan. God could not be guilty of such unlawful dealings, so if men are finally lost it is not because God has failed, His plan has failed, the sacrifice of Christ has failed, or that God did not have power to keep them contrary to His plan. If God's promises and covenants were made on the condition that man must fulfill righteousness, then God cannot do otherwise than to cut off who refuse to conform to His demands. If God failed to hold men to the terms of the contracts, He has made with them, He would be a lair and all men with free wills would lose respect for Him. The follow Scriptures are a few of the many passages that plainly teach that God's dealings have always been on the condition of obedience (Ex. 15:26; 19:5, 6; 22:23, 24; 23:30-33; 32:33; Lev. 26:3-46; Deut. 7:12-24; 8:10-20; 11:13-31; 28:1-68; 29:9-28; 30:1-20; Josh. 23:16; 24:20; 1 Sam. 12:14, 15, 24; 1 Ki. 3:12; 9:3-9; 11:38, 39; 2 Ki. 17:7-23; 21:7, 8; Isa. 1:19, 20; Col. 1:23; 1 Cor. 15:1-5; Heb. 3:6, 12-14; 4:11; 6:4-12; 10:26-39; 2 Pet. 2:20-22; Jn. 15:1-6).

 

[BanjoPicker]

THERE ARE NO REASONABLE OR SCRIPTURAL ARGUMENTS THAT CAN PRESENT TO PROVE THAT GOD SAVES OR KEEPS MEN CONTRARY TO THEIR FREE CHOICE.

Nothing is hard to understand about election, foreknowledge, or predestination when one realizes that it is God's plan itself, and not personal conformity to that plan that has been foreknown and predestinated. God decrees that all who do conform will be saved and all who do not will be lost and this is the sum and substance of these doctrines. God's decrees were never made to determine the choices of free moral agents as to whether some will be saved, or others will be lost. The decrees of God are those parts of His plan to which all must conform in order to be saved and those who refuse will be lost. Men have made the great mistake of making the doctrine of decrees, to which all must conform to be saved, the same as the free acts of men in conforming to those laws. God does not determine our willing and doing but He does decree the basis of the action for free moral agents that will save or da-mn them accordingly. This does not mean that the initiative of man's salvation is with man. It is with God who chose to make a way of salvation for all men, especially of them that believe and that conform to this plan of their own free choice.

 

[gemcgrew]

It is true that no man can be saved except God deals with him

Yes

 

[Spotlite]

that He is somehow subject in salvation to the will and whim of man's "ability" to recognize the truth.

WHO believes this made made term - free will...............means that^^^^

 

[gma1320]

We are all predestined to be children of God. The Word of God tells us that He knew us before we were created in the womb. But God is a gentleman and He gives us the free will to choose whether or not we want to be one of His children.

 

[M80]

And round and round and round and round. It will never end.

 

[M80]

 

[BanjoPicker]

There are no reasonable or scripture that can be present to prove that God saves or keeps men contrary to their free choice.

Election deals with all creatures as sinners and therefore must deal with them on the same basis or the plan is faulty, and the planner is a respecter of persons and unjust in His dealings. The reason God saves only a few is because only a few choose the way of God, and therefore God is free from the final responsibility of the salvation or ****ation of anyone. God cannot say to some that He did them no wrong if He does not deal with them in justice and righteousness on the same basis as others and make them personally responsible as to their destiny. If God offers pardon to all, then all can accept it alike or the offer of pardon is a fraud. If all can accept it, then He is fair to all and the salvation and ****ation rests with the individual and not with God. To argue that God offers a pardon to all alkie and then to contradict this by saying that He offers it to only a few special ones whom He has chosen to save, does not make logic and it is not scriptural. God does not force one to become willing and other to become unwilling to be saved. He deals with all men, seeking to persuade them to be saved and because some become willing, and others do not is no sign that God is responsible for their choice made.

It is a matter of record that there were qualities of character in Abraham, David, and others that caused God to choose them. It was because they became willing to obey God. God tested them to the end of knowing whether they would obey or not. This is very clear from these passages (Gen. 18:17-19; 22:1, 12; Ex.4:8, 9; Josh. 1:7; 1 Sam. 2:26; 13:13, 14; 15:11, 22, 23-28; 16:1-14; 2 Sam. 12:24; 1 Ki. 3:10-14; Lk. 2:52; 4:1-13; Heb. 5:8, 9). Common sense alone teaches us that God could not choose certain people for certain works because they are not of the type that could be used. Even men have this much intelligence. God's continued use of men has always been on the basis of their obedience. Many whom He has used when they were humble became cut off because they became exalted and sinned.

 

[BanjoPicker]

One has all the reason in the world to believe that God treats all moral beings alike according to like standards of light that they have received.

All inequality in moral agents has come through the fall and rebellion. On several occasions God placed the race on and equal footing concerning His plan. This was true of Adam's race in the beginning. It was true at the flood. It was true on other occasions (Rom. 1:17-32). God still deals with all men on the same basis of no different kinds of grounds in Mt. 13:19-23, can become changed in life and conduct by accepting the gospel so that God will use them in His work. One might as well argue that fallow ground cannot be broken, that stony ground cannot have stones taken out, that the thorny ground must always be thorny, and that all ground cannot be made produce fruit, as to argue that all men cannot have their lives changed by the gospel to the point of being used of God and saved in the end if they so desire. To sum up the doctrine of election, we may say that the elect of God are the whosoever will class who come and take of the water of life FREELY and the non-elect are the whosoever will not class who CHOOSE to REJECT the gospel.

 

[Artfuldodger]

View attachment 1184152

If Calvinism were true, Jesus could not have been tempted.

 

[gemcgrew]

WHO believes this made made term - free will...............means that^^^^

Are you not reading Banjo?

 

[gemcgrew]

If Calvinism were true, Jesus could not have been tempted.

I don't think any thought went into post 146. It is good to know who the Pantheist are though.

 

[gemcgrew]

There are no reasonable or scripture that can be present to prove that God saves or keeps men contrary to their free choice.

You have yet to establish man's free choice.

 

[gemcgrew]

We are all predestined to be children of God. The Word of God tells us that He knew us before we were created in the womb. But God is a gentleman and He gives us the free will to choose whether or not we want to be one of His children.

The God of the Bible is no gentleman.

 

[Spotlite]

Are you not reading Banjo?

Banjo isn’t saying this - “that He is somehow subject in salvation to the will and whim of man's "ability" to recognize.”

No one that believes “fee will” believes that ^^

I’m sure there’s confusion because everyone thinks that the predestination folks are saying man has no choice, but y’all end up saying “no one said man has no choice”.

 

[M80]

I don't think any thought went into post 146. It is good to know who the Pantheist are though.

Well I’m glad you feel that way. You are so confident in yourself and it’s very apparent reading your comments. To many years ago we had this same discussion when I made the thread “God murdered his son” because if God made sin then he willingly made his Son to die on the cross. I’ve spent plenty of time back then showing verse after verse about free will and eternal salvation for you to only post one or 2 scriptures to twist their meaning. When I asked you if God chose to send one of your sons to He11 would you be upset. You told me you would still praise him. I’m thankful I serve the Lord that gave salvation to all men and men either chose him or reject him by their decision. There is a word in the Bible that says “foreknew”. You still wouldn’t have that either. God knows what decision we are going to make before the foundation of the World. That’s were predestination comes from, His foreknowledge. I guess I should have just stayed away again but it hurts me to know it just hurts me to see men give out wrong Information in here and not help bring folks to the knowledge of Jesus Christ. Jesus said to go out in the highways and hedges and compel them to come. Calvinist sit back and say “well if their going to get saved then it’s going to happen anyways so why should I be obedient to the Bible”. At least from most that I’ve known that’s how they act. A lot also don’t even go to church. Anyways, good luck hunting this year everybody.

 

[BanjoPicker]

THINGS THE BIBLE DOES NOT SAY ABOUT ELECTION, FOREKNOWLEDGE AND PREDESITNATION.

The Bible does not say that God called, chose, elected, foreknew, and predestinated from eternity who are to be saved or lost.

The Bible does say that saved have had their names in the book of life from all eternity.

The Bible does not say that all whom Christ died for are guaranteed eternal life and not one will be lost.

The Bible does not say that God could have saved every man of Adam's race if He had willed to do so.

The Bible does not say that non-elect sinners cannot possibly be saved regardless of what they do to be saved.

The Bible does not say That every sinner is so dead spiritually that he cannot see, hear, understand, believe in, confess sins, come to Christ, do any good, or obey the gospel in any degree in themselves without the new birth.

The Bible does say that the Holy Spirit will quicken and make alive elect sinners so that they can, hear, understand, and obey the gospel, but He will pass all others by and will not enable them to believe and obey.

The Bible does not say that God's plan of salvation and the atonement was made for a select few who will become the final elect. No provision is made for the majority of sinners, and they can never be saved even if they chose to be or cooperated in salvation.

The Bible does not say that man's free choice does not have one thing to do with his salvation or ****ation in any degree.

The Bible does not say that God's call, election, and salvation are not based upon any faith, tendency to obey, trait, power, or any possibility of any act, or attitude on the part of the sinner.

The Bible does not say that all men have a general outward call to salvation, but it is not possible for the majority of sinners to accept and obey the call, for they are not chosen, elected, or predestinated to eternal life.

The Bible does not say the few men who are the elect-sinners not only receive the general outward call, but they receive a special inward call by the Holy Spirit, which He never gives to the other sinners--a call that designates them as the special elect and that guarantees their final salvation.

The Bible does not say that it is not man, but God that determined from all eternity which persons would be saved or lost.

The Bible does say salvation is wholly a work of God from the beginning to the end, and in no sense, or in any degree can a sinner contribute to his own salvation in attitude, will, choice, faith, yieldedness, consecration, surrender, obedience, repentance, confession of sin and guilt, meeting conditions, or in coming to Christ, or accepting salvation.

The Bible does say salvation is not and cannot be a mutual arrangement, or a mutual, cooperation between God and man.

The Bible does say that elect is so controlled by God that one cannot possibly reject or refuse salvation or disobey God in any detail.

The Bible does say that the elect do, not have any responsibility at all to keep themselves in grace, obey the gospel, or be faithful to the end to be saved.

The Bible does not say that no sinner is free to obey God, and he cannot meet any of the gospel requirements until he is born again and made alive by the Holy Spirit.

The Bible does not say That God's choice to save a man is the only choice made in salvation, for man is incapable of making choices, and even if he could make them, they would be of no value in affecting his salvation one way or the other.

The Bible does not say no man of the elect-sinners can possibly resist the special inward call of the Holy Spirit to be saved, for grace is invincible and irresistable on the part of the elect-sinners.

The Bible does not say that the Holy Spirit is not limited in His work of applying salvation to any man whom He chooses, nor is he dependent upon man's co-operation for success in applying salvation processes.

The Bible does not say that man is a helpless, slave to God from the time the Holy Spirit chooses and applies salvation to him.

The Bible does not say that all acts and events, both small and great, come about as a result of God's election and eternal degrees, and nothing can happen in time or in eternity, in the heavens or on earth, without God's direct control and purpose.

The Bible does not say that Christ did not die for every sinner, but only for a special few who are the objects of God's sovereign will and grace.

The Bible does not say God does not leave it up to sinners, or their co-operation as to whether Christ's work will be effective and eternal in them or not.

 

[gemcgrew]

The Bible does say that saved have had their names in the book of life from all eternity.

The Bible does say that the Holy Spirit will quicken and make alive elect sinners so that they can, hear, understand, and obey the gospel, but He will pass all others by and will not enable them to believe and obey.


The Bible does say salvation is wholly a work of God from the beginning to the end, and in no sense, or in any degree can a sinner contribute to his own salvation in attitude, will, choice, faith, yieldedness, consecration, surrender, obedience, repentance, confession of sin and guilt, meeting conditions, or in coming to Christ, or accepting salvation.

The Bible does say salvation is not and cannot be a mutual arrangement, or a mutual, cooperation between God and man.

The Bible does say that elect is so controlled by God that one cannot possibly reject or refuse salvation or disobey God in any detail.

Amen

 

[gemcgrew]

When I asked you if God chose to send one of your sons to He11 would you be upset. You told me you would still praise him.

Why would I withhold praise from God in that matter, as if He did wrong? Or maybe the better question is, why do you?

I guess I should have just stayed away again but it hurts me to know it just hurts me to see men give out wrong Information in here and not help bring folks to the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

I am not in the soul saving business. That is God's work.

Nobody goes to their own place because of anything we say or do.