Once Saved Always Saved (added pt 2 post #90)

[StriperAddict]

Wise let us be so as fearless children to Christ and not as adults holding on to the fears of the past. For me this is ever a tall order, but I have to hope that in Christ it is of real simplicity.

Love this note of the heart, for the heart.

Yes, how awesome, Being one who was helped with many a fear by the real simplicity of the message of Christ.

Aside from our docturnal differences we speak Christ, I for one attempt to do so, sharing that simple grace that has made us whole. That is why I am here.

Peace longings.

 

[Israel]

It's not our's (Col 3:16,17).

I had to look that up. Glad I did, cause my first thought was wrong about it.

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Those verses actually go a very long way in answer to the question "Why am I here?" Or at least to me in them a good consideration can be found for answer.

But when I say answer I do not mean in all cases it may be my answer. That answer convicts me itself. In that it is the better answer. And perhaps that is why our brother wrote "It's not ours". I could give that as answer...but almost any could, if wanting to make a show of me by holding me to it, easily ask:

"Israel, are you saying you do everything (that "all") in the name of the Lord Jesus...?"
"You always speak and act in full accord with the name of Christ?"

Ohhh, what a spot. The answer is good, the answer is right, and I can endorse it so...but to say I walk in "all" its fullness...well...that is an entirely different matter.

That may well be God's answer to me of "Why am I here...?" (and none of it is unsavory or burdensome)...but I had better consider what I am doing if in wrong attitude I seek to adopt it to myself before men. Oh, I may be able to catch a naif (if catching is what I am after) but I also may be able to catch the wisest of all (if catching is what I am after) who may both say the same thing "OK, if this is so then I will follow you to where and how you live to learn of you".

Have you ever tried to teach the Christ? I have. I have corrected Him, told Him why things are a bit different than what He sees and says, how I am a bit different than all the others He may have ever spoken to or known, and why my motives need full explanation to be rightly understood. (Lord, you've never met anyone like me!)

And before all men and angels (and of course firstly the Lord Himself) I am demonstrated as Clouseau in these

I have been so complicit in creating painfully teachable moments I have no trouble understanding why a brother might say he needs his fears purged. My will to be, my desire to be, even any hope to be shown as a "good Christ detective" has ended in such plain folly that all except me may see it, that I am brought to a place where (to whatever extent I may appreciate it) my will, my desire, my hope is clearly demonstrated as totally ineffective. And not only so...but of some great damage and suffering (the cross) to any who would "allow" for me. A man now totally convinced of the butterfly effect in his creation of hurricanes elsewhere by any of his own motions.

So where does that place...the man?
(I speak as a believer, I trust)

I am not forbidden desire. I am not forbidden a will of "mine", I am not forbidden...hope. (I have no persuasion the Father was repulsed by Jesus' will at all. Nor that Jesus was Himself...except...as it was shown inferior. Which one could argue without contradiction..."Anything inferior to the will of God is unrighteousness"...and this is haply and happily where faith brings us. To show us a superior/the superior will.)

Do you get where I aim when I speak of will...especially in experience of "mine"?
Before the entrance of Christ, I never doubted my own will superior in all...even when it was being met with all obstacle to frustration. It had to be (to me)...because it was so very good (to me). Therefore all that resisted it was evil...lesser...trying to thwart a "good thing"...my will.

But faith reveals a will (not only able to thwart my own)...but especially able to because of its superiority of goodness. A will to surpass even my own will for (what I once considered) the good for me...(and any other "beloved one" I may have also held good will toward).

So, where once I was aware of opposition (and always considered it evil) faith shows me (or the revelation of grace if one prefers) a will set above my own...which...even if at first merely experienced as opposition, can be sought and seen. (Make no mistake here if I sound like I am trying to be "high minded"...without question any first taste of resistance to my will I consider "enemy"...it is only grace that quiets my first seemingly very right initial response)

My testimony in so many ways can be reduced to an experience of salvation by intervention...but such that I am kept from "doing what I would do"...or "saying what I would say". And I would be a liar to not say this has come in an allowance of experience...to do both those things and taste outcomes. I thank God for slapping His hand over my mouth, and nailing my feet to the floor as necessary...when in those times I know how ready I was to "say" or "do"...according to first impulse.

What has this to do with anything?
This:

"Fear not little flock, it is the Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom"

Had I not been brought (and by grace continue to recognize that experience) where I see my will fail, my desire fail, my own hope fail to secure...(often thinking these things are set for employment to security...for myself and loved ones) I would be absolutely in continual despair.

I need the truth of it. (As I believe we all do)...that the superior (all superior) will of goodness is toward a man to give, and so far in excess of that man to have...that fears there cannot but be abolished. Desire may move me, my will may move me, my hope may move me, but if left to their own power I have found them in all, insufficient. Do I "want to be saved"? Really...who doesn't or wouldn't? Do I have hope for hopes fulfilled? Again...who doesn't...? But unless that will (from above) is constantly at work toward me in every form of work...I am lost. And also leading others (if any "see" me) into further darkness of trusting in themselves for securing and accomplishing.

"This is the work of God, that you believe upon Him whom He has sent".
Truly...seriously...in all honesty I say I once thought "OK, I have done that...what's next?"

"I have done that."

Oh! The folly!

I say this in all sobriety believing it need be said. The church...in whatever manifestation any man may claim it...his sight or understanding of it, his perception of it, his declaration of it...is never concerned with anything but the primacy of Christ in all things. It is very much a cart and horse thing...the church is not for the teaching of its primacy...rather it is what is comprised of those who relentlessly hold to the primacy of Christ in faith and by grace. Only Christ can reveal His Bride to any...but it is not in the testimony of the Bride to herself she is made secure.

This will seem a subtle thing...till it is not. And Christ (who only comes by revelation) can show a man that when he is found in Him...He is found in the Church. Some who think they sense a disdain from some in regards to the church will be set aright even as so much of what has testified to itself, of itself as "the place" will learn.

There's a sign outside a building I pass almost daily. It reads "Let us be the Church for you"

If you think this sentiment is rare take heart when you yourselves are bounced from the place you too have been trying to fit.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

annnnnnnnnnnnnd this thread has pretty much went the way of all the others on OSAS: lot of heat and smoke, but very little light.

 

[Israel]

annnnnnnnnnnnnd this thread has pretty much went the way of all the others on OSAS: lot of heat and smoke, but very little light.

smoke 'em if ya got 'em.



ya got a light?

 

[j_seph]

smoke 'em if ya got 'em.



ya got a light?

I do, because Jesus went away and I became the light. How about you

 

[gemcgrew]

smoke 'em if ya got 'em.



ya got a light?

I see men as trees, walking.

 

[gordon 2]

In theology, divine light (also called divine radiance or divine refulgence) is an aspect of divine presence, specifically an unknown and mysterious ability of angels or human beings to express themselves communicatively through spiritual means, rather than through physical capacities.

 

[gemcgrew]

I do, because Jesus went away and I became the light. How about you

A vessel of Light.

 

[gemcgrew]

And that’s a prime example that theology is not only not synonymous with a personal relationship with God but oft antagonistic to one. Educate a man right into hades thinking the warmth he imagines is the love of God when all the while it’s just his ego being stoked by Pridemaster himself.

One can no more educate a man into Hades than he can educate a man into Heaven.

 

[gemcgrew]

We probably can ask many times, but I'm pretty sure we should not anticipate that the answer will include contingencies.

Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth!

 

[Israel]

It would be a silly thing to think that the believer is less concerned with the matter of security than any other; when in fact it is only the believer to whom this is made of such paramount significance. Only the believer is given any insight (revelation/understanding/appreciation) into matters eternal (lasting/enduring) and matters temporal (passing away).

That matter of the veil by which we are told even Moses' visage (and vision) was shrouded is not found of Christ, nor in Christ. Did that make Moses at all bereft of any knowledge of God? God forbid!

The prophets of whom Jesus speaks as righteous...even singling out John (the Baptist) of such note "among women born" is nevertheless spoken of as "less great" than the least in the Kingdom. We can leave all matters of considerations of comparisons and the ultimate quagmire of metrics men might assign to reconcile such to themselves as they were also left to me...to be waded through (as, and if, need be) until one comes up hard against the word of Christ alone.

Time, in that sense, is of no consequence to the Spirit; He is faithful to minister in patience of what is of Christ; it is (things are) as the Lord speaks. And even such matters that may yet appear as "to be" will be...according as the Lord speaks. What is "of Christ" is of Christ, what is stranger to Him...not "of His own" also have a place assigned.

When Paul said:


And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.


Was that for their disqualifying...or as reproval?

Was it:

"I guess you don't belong to Christ"?
or
"Because I am persuaded you do (belong to Christ) it is not fitting to remain as babes where things can only be ministered according to some temporal (carnal) references you can understand"?

It might even be a third thing.

By persistent reproval at those points of resistance and Paul's unyielding...yielding to the Spirit, and in such persistence to reprove carnal things and understandings and preferences...it would be made plain as to the nature of the hearers, and he needn't be concerned at all with anything but his only hearing rightly, and speaking accordingly. "To him who has, more will be given..."

The trail that becomes of "what belongs and what does not" comes only in trial by the word of the Lord; for if one has not learned of the abundance of grace needed there...both in that trial and for it (recognizing trials come because of it, that is the word of the Lord) one may have very little interest (or none) in the instruction to make one's calling and election sure.

Paul was no doubt about this...perhaps not even reading Peter's epistle. Though to the untuned ear it sounds of some caprice as in speaking...and "let the chips fall where they may", but in another (though not at all of caprice) a relief is ensured (secured) in that instruction to submit one's self to examination to see whether one be of the faith. For what is simple may not be easy and what is easy may result in more complications than any man might have ever imagined. Yet, it is simple. What the spirit speaks is accomplished by the spirit.

It cannot be but so no matter what vessel is chosen. Even a high priest who will sentence Jesus to death may prophesy. It might then be too silly for any man to think or propose "I will choose the how, where, and of whom I will hear from the Lord".

When Paul spoke of "grievous" wolves rising up not sparing the flock one may come to the curious place of recognizing that every response but one is not salubrious to the soul.

Not, "But what can be done to prevent this?" Not, "Oh that's terrible and shouldn't happen". Surely not "But that could never happen amongst "us", or "we will not let this happen". Nor even "But we have been attentively seeking to be obedient for so long..."

"Is it I Lord?" is about all I am led to.

My wife laughed recently in my recognition of me. Whether it was a laugh of relief like "OK, now maybe we can move off this spot..." or just a common laugh folks have when they both nod after admitting how they can both be made to see the same thing in the same way, matters not much...a good laugh...is a good laugh.

I told her how at once I was the man with both a deep inferiority complex while also having a lofty superiority complex. How that in most of my dealings with others I have pretty much felt I needed to feel sorry for them...for not being me. A sort of awkward pity or condescension that I see infected all my relationships...eventually. And then when I told her how I also see this had grown out of (but more probably with) a sense of inferiority...of always feeling I was in way over my head and treading water as best I could...clueless...is when she laughed...and nodded "yep".

It's good to be seen. It's good to be loved.

It's good to be both seen and loved. And I don't know if either can take place apart unless both are. Taking place.

It's good to be known. Yet impossible to hide.

It's good to be loved. There's no life apart from it.

 

[gemcgrew]

"Is it I Lord?" is about all I am led to.

Ha! That is a good place to be.

But you're not that important and neither am I.

 

[Israel]

Ha! That is a good place to be.

But you're not that important and neither am I.

Thank you. What a relief!

 

[hummerpoo]

Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth!

Thank you Brother. I was in need of the comfort of that chapter.