Purpose of one bird a day limit?

[goblr77]

What about the population boom from the 80s thru 2000 or so? Do y'all really think that mature birds weren't being killed early and often?

The hens seemed to have no issues being bred during that timeframe.

The full strut decoy craze wasn't around then and the number of turkey hunters weren't nearly what they are now.

 

[nick_o_demus]

I would assume the reasoning was to allow more time for mature birds to breed??

But based on the science Mike Chamberlain has put out, just because he's mature, doesn't mean he's the dominant breeder. If their lekking structure is broken down because the dominant breeder is shot, the next tom doesn't just step up. Their whole hierarchy is scrambled and must be reset, then it takes time for the hens to select a new dominant breeder.

If this is the case, it seems like pushing the season start dates back and/or going to a "1 bird during the 1st week" limit, like Missouri uses, would be WAY more beneficial in ensuring that more hens get bred than a daily limit would. He says more poults on the landscape at the same time or what he called "predator swamping" would create a higher survival rate. I don't really understand that, but if someone can explain it better I would appreciate it.

 

[buckpasser]

I'm not understanding your point. There are plenty of people who are hunting turkeys, squirrels, rabbits, quail and would not do it if they couldn't harvest the meat. In fact, i'd say most ethical hunters probably fall into this category.

My point is my original point. Turkey hunting is not, and will not ever be about meat. It’s inefficient unless you are walking from your home to do it. The daily bag limit won’t make any of us starve, because we’re already much better off purchasing turkey meat than hunting it (from a fiscal perspective). Meat is a great biproduct of turkey hunting, and I too would quit if it were illegal to use the meat acquired from a kill, but it’s still not about the meat.

 

[NCMTNHunter]

I would assume the reasoning was to allow more time for mature birds to breed??

But based on the science Mike Chamberlain has put out, just because he's mature, doesn't mean he's the dominant breeder. If their lekking structure is broken down because the dominant breeder is shot, the next tom doesn't just step up. Their whole hierarchy is scrambled and must be reset, then it takes time for the hens to select a new dominant breeder.

If this is the case, it seems like pushing the season start dates back and/or going to a "1 bird during the 1st week" limit, like Missouri uses, would be WAY more beneficial in ensuring that more hens get bred than a daily limit would. He says more poults on the landscape at the same time or what he called "predator swamping" would create a higher survival rate. I don't really understand that, but if someone can explain it better I would appreciate it.

This is an over exaggeration to make the point but think of predator swamping like this. Let's say you have a coyote in an area with 52 does. If one doe gave birth to a fawn every week throughout the year that coyote would have a new fawn to focus on and catch every week. The fawns would never be able to get big enough to stand a chance of survival.

Now if all 52 does gave birth the same day, even in the coyote caught a fawn a day for the first two weeks it would allow the other 38 fawns to get some size and ability to escape.

Predators can do far less damage to a population if a bunch of young are dumped on the landscape at the same time.

If all the poults hatched in a shorter amount of time it allows more of them to survive until they can escape and stand a better chance at survival. Not that this doesn't have its disadvantages as well but as far as overcoming predators, it works.

 

[ddd-shooter]

It depends on the size of the flock and the number of mature birds.

It will be a TWO bird limit not three and then the hunter will be done with no more pressure from that hunter if he doubles. So no, it will not negatively effect the flock. No difference in shooting one bird on Saturday and one bird on Sunday. I can assure you, those satellite birds will move in as soon as the boss is dead.

As far as the buck situation, yes the doe will more than likely be bred within that first time of being in estrous, there are always bucks ready to breed.

And if you think that a young buck is only passing on the genes for his size at the time of breeding, you are way off the mark, plus a buck is only giving half the genetics of ththeir offspring. Nature intended deer to be able to breed over an extended time, the majority of late breeders are healthy fawns.

It's been three up to now. Hence the analogy...
You answered perfectly. You are assuming your position in your responses. All I ask is you consider it the other way. As you said "depends."

Let's say it IS a smaller flock. That HAS been hit with predators, habitat decline, and who knows what else. What if the turkey researchers are correct, and lecks don't establish quickly? What if this guy shoots two, and didn't know the other guy across the property line shot two?

Doesn't this HELP that flock? It certainly doesn't hurt it. It might hurt your opinion of how it should be done, but if Georgia is as flexible to INCREASE the bag limit as decrease it, which they've been in the past, if populations go up, you should expect to see those changes reflected as well.

You're also assuming people double up and stop hunting. Not so. Many continue to pair up and go with other hunters. So the pressure from that hunter just doesn't stop when they pull the trigger.
Also SOME hunters who refuse to double up, never do get that second or third bird. Say what you will, that's a good thing for the flock.


One thing is certain. Turkey numbers are down. I'm glad to see them be proactive rather than watch the decline from a distance.

 

[NUTT]

I’m thinking the logic for the change is if the nest is busted more gobblers still available for breeding throughout the season. Most people say coons and possums are a huge problem. Thoughts?

 

[antharper]

I’m thinking the logic for the change is if the nest is busted more gobblers still available for breeding throughout the season. Most people say coons and possums are a huge problem. Thoughts?

I agree with your logic . And the population is for sure down in most areas . One piece I hunt is not some big piece of property that we spend millions on . We trap , plant a lot of stuff for the wildlife , including chufa for the turkeys and burn . Also don’t shoot any jakes . The population on this property is as good or better than it’s ever been . But I know for sure the county population is way down , I do a lot of riding and don’t see the turkeys I did just a few years ago . I’m all for the one bird a day limit , I’ve been doing it for years , especially when 2-3 come in together as they often do .

 

[JMB]

The full strut decoy craze wasn't around then and the number of turkey hunters weren't nearly what they are now.

this☝?

 

[sea trout]

If the DNR decides to go to a 2 gobbler limit with no more than one bird per day, what is the reasoning behind the daily bag limit of one?

The limit is the limit no matter if it happens in one pull of the trigger or it takes 6 weeks to kill 2.

I'm guessing the collateral damage kills when someone accidentally kills 2 with one shot are not going to be tagged.

The only time I killed a double it was accidental. I knew two toms came. I was really focused on the 1. The other was 3ish yards to the right and 5ish yards behind!
I shot the bird I was aimin at and dropped him and he went ta floppin. I got up and rushed over to stand on his neck and when almost to him I noticed the other one is over there floppin too!!!
I grabbed my intended bird and take 5 or 6 steps to stand on the other floppin tom.
That hunt did teach me to be MUCH more cautious about shotgun spread and other nearby birds.
But I'm glad 2 was legal at the time and I tagged em both.
In the unlikelyness I ever have that happen again I would be honest and upfront about it.

 

[buckpasser]

The only time I killed a double it was accidental. I knew two toms came. I was really focused on the 1. The other was 3ish yards to the right and 5ish yards behind!
I shot the bird I was aimin at and dropped him and he went ta floppin. I got up and rushed over to stand on his neck and when almost to him I noticed the other one is over there floppin too!!!
I grabbed my intended bird and take 5 or 6 steps to stand on the other floppin tom.
That hunt did teach me to be MUCH more cautious about shotgun spread and other nearby birds.
But I'm glad 2 was legal at the time and I tagged em both.
In the unlikelyness I ever have that happen again I would be honest and upfront about it.

I did something similar years ago. Opening day and I had a group of three Toms coming in fast off the roost. The first one came around the corner in the fire break and stood up tall. I put it on his neck and boom! He just took off running through the woods and out of sight. It was very close so I guessed my pattern was small and he was missed clean. About that time the next one stepped up and I killed him. When I was collecting him (and my thoughts) about ten minutes later, I heard some racket in the briars and gobbler #1 was just starting the death flop! He had been clipped in the neck and bled out. I was very disappointed in myself that day.

 

[sea trout]

I did something similar years ago. Opening day and I had a group of three Toms coming in fast off the roost. The first one came around the corner in the fire break and stood up tall. I put it on his neck and boom! He just took off running through the woods and out of sight. It was very close so I guessed my pattern was small and he was missed clean. About that time the next one stepped up and I killed him. When I was collecting him (and my thoughts) about ten minutes later, I heard some racket in the briars and gobbler #1 was just starting the death flop! He had been clipped in the neck and bled out. I was very disappointed in myself that day.

WOW!!
That's lucky you were able to recover bird one!
Were you in Ga or a state it was legal to have both in 1 day?

 

[buckpasser]

WOW!!
That's lucky you were able to recover bird one!
Were you in Ga or a state it was legal to have both in 1 day?

It was GA and perfectly legal, just not perfectly right.

 

[Hoosier06]

Hopefully they dont do a bird a day rule if they do have to go to a 2 bird limit based on biological necessity. Let the 20% who have a chance to double up do it.(swag based on the proposals expected numbers) If the numbers are so bad that we need more excessive bureaucracy then put them on the endangered species list.

 

[buckpasser]

Hopefully they dont do a bird a day rule if they do have to go to a 2 bird limit based on biological necessity. Let the 20% who have a chance to double up do it.(swag based on the proposals expected numbers) If the numbers are so bad that we need more excessive bureaucracy then put them on the endangered species list.

Why would you want to tag out for the season in one hunt? Is it a feeling of insecurity about being able to ever get on another one, or do you just dislike turkey hunting that much?

 

[HoudiniMountainGobbler]

I have family in Missouri and I’ve had the pleasure to hunt there over the years. Turkey season there is 3 weeks long. The bag limit is 2 for the season. You are only allowed to harvest one bird in the first week. If you don’t harvest one in the first week you can harvest two in the second and third week, but you cannot harvest two in the same day. It reduces hunting pressure on WMAs and also makes it more difficult to harvest turkeys in my opinion. I’ve had occasions where I had to wait for two toms to separate before I could squeeze the trigger.
All that being said, Missouri’s Turkey population was estimated to be around 600,000 birds in the early 2000s and has been cut down to an estimated ~350,000 today. Biologists believe there are multiple factors at play, but the biggest is loss of edge habitats due to farming. Cattle and ag farmers are trying their best to maximize the amount of land they have by clearing out draws and fence lines and I’ve seen plenty of that myself. Whatever the culprit is, it’s definitely something we all need to take into account and do what we can to preserve the wild turkey population.

 

[turk2di]

If the DNR decides to go to a 2 gobbler limit with no more than one bird per day, what is the reasoning behind the daily bag limit of one?

The limit is the limit no matter if it happens in one pull of the trigger or it takes 6 weeks to kill 2.

I'm guessing the collateral damage kills when someone accidentally kills 2 with one shot are not going to be tagged.

You greatly limit the opportunities for others... especially on public ground.

 

[tonyrittenhouse]

Lower the limit for the season to two birds but not the daily limit to one. I don't have a unlimited number of days to hunt and if I can kill my limit in one day then let me. That may be the only day I have to hunt.

 

[FLGobstopper]

I'm no expert but I can only tell you from my personal experience that a daily limit of 1 on FL public land has saved several just over the past month. Started end of Feb youth season in south FL and between that and last week alone me, my kids and couple of other guys I've taken it has saved at least 6 in FL for another day.

Just this past weekend son and I had a 3 day GA trip where my 15 yr old son had a quota hunt and had 5 jakes come in Sat morning. He could of shot 3 on that one sit according to current GA public land regs. He somewhat reluctantly did not due to my persuasion. Couple hours later called in 2 longbeards in another spot a long way off and he did shoot 1 and could of at least attempted another shot on the other longbeard but did not.

This is on a beautiful GA WMA that I've grown to love and I really respect all the hard work that the GA DNR has done and continues to do there. All though, it was great to see 5 jakes, I also can also attest that the population is NOT near what it was 10 or even just 5 years ago. I hadn't been in a couple years but we really, really had to cover a lot of ground to find them and I used to have spots all over that I could go and have a good opportunity of hearing or seeing one. Put 12 miles on the boots on Friday hunting and kinda speed scouting and ran into very few tracks or any other sign. Found really 2 locations that had more than 1 set of some fresh tracks, scratching, and a gobbler track or 2 and only 1 spot with some fresh strut marks. Sat morning went into strut mark area that borders creek and heard nothing close but 2 off property quarter mile or so away. Heard and saw 1 hen an hour or so later little called in the jakes not far from strut mark spot. Moved to other spot we had seen tracks and scratching late morning and slowly bounced around, napped and called until we heard the pair gobble after 2 pm. Now it had rained the afternoon before but again not much sign seen and nothing else heard. Next morning tried other spot I've done well before and that used to be good thinking maybe their just not leaving sign off fire breaks, road or anything but are down in the bottoms more. Not a peep, not a track but did see 4 hens working off in a burn around 8 am all by themselves. No gobbler around. Hunted until noon continuing to look and only found 1 other somewhat promising looking area but had boot tracks all over it.

I'm not a big proponent of more rules and regs but man this one place really pains me. It's some of the most beautiful and pristine turkey habitat I've ever seen anywhere and from what I've witnessed there is just not a lot of turkeys there currently. They extensively trap and manage predators and hogs, burn pre nesting season, thin overgrown areas, plant and manage native vegetation and still it appears that on this WMA the population continues to decline. The only other thing I can think of that can be done is make some changes regarding the numbers of birds harvested and amount of hunters in the woods. I'm at a loss to this one because it really has me scratching my head and leaves an uneasy feeling in my stomach whenever I think about it too much. Again, I do not like taking away days or opportunity, but at some point don't you think we need to exhaust all our resources to help get things turned around?

As for me I could go back in a couple weeks once quota hunts are done like I've done in years past. I could possibly find and pull out another bird somewhere. Just because I can I'm also choosing not to at this point. But, I think many other people might not and if they get the opportunity to shoot 2 or 3 jakes or longheards in one sit they likely will because, well they can or they have the opportunity and there's not a lot of other oppotunities around or they don't have the days to hunt. That's the problem with the whole scenario and if it continues to get done that way you have to have years, after years, after years of super hatches just to keep up. Apparently that's not been happening.

 

[Sixes]

An example of what I will not like is just what happened to me Friday. I took my 75 year old Dad and another 73 year old friend of the family down to friend of my Dad's plantation. It's roughly 165 miles from home.

Friday morning, I called in a bird and had him dead at 815. Under what will possibly be the new rules, I could not of hunted that evening and I sure could not just run home. Now, I chose not hunt that evening, I hog hunted instead, but there is no reason that if I had chose to turkey hunt that it should not be allowed.

 

[Sixes]

I do think I am in favor or wma limit of 1. I didnt realize quotas allowed 3 birds, I've never put in for one, I assumed it was a limit of 1 or 2.