re: 1222DANO/Danny Ramey, Blaine Burley & WNW Hunt
Unbelievable.
"Had an enjoyable weekend. Seen a lot of deer, but no trophys. Thanks _______ & ________."
Dannny, _____, _____, ______ & _____ Ramey."
(as quoted in the guestbook following the 1222DANO/Danny Ramey hunt with WNW Inc., which I am holding in my hand...)
I am sitting here at my desk in absolute amazement and disbelief at the litany of accusations, fallacies, and slander that has unfolded over the past few days from grown men who are incredibly brazen and brave when sitting at home in front of a keyboard under hidden names, most of which have never heard the name Blaine Burley or known about this company before this malicious posting began.
Having never gone on a forum before, I am also in shock that grown men, hunters who are supposed to the best of the best men out there, will sit in front of a computer screen and personally attack someone (and eachother) to the point that the webmaster has to pull the posting as a principal dealing with children.
Having recently realized that this absurdity was going on and having initially chosen to ignore such, the level of maliciousness and deceit has grown to the point that I will gladly let you know exactly what is going on with WNW Inc, 1222DANO's (Danny Ramey) hunt, and our company.
Let me begin by acknowledging that not one reply on 1222DANO's accusatory posting came from anyone within our organization. We weren't even aware that any of this was going on until almost a week after it had begun and after Blaine had left home for a hunt (which he is still on and has not had the joy of reading this bantering). In the closing post, it was stated that the hunter and the outfitter had shared their say, but that wasn't the case. Every reply came from cyber-land, although apparently a few came from people that know us personally, but not one from us.
Well, here you go...
1. Re DANO's Accusations about the lodge: I personally own the lodge (pictures available at woodsnwaterinc.com) and to say that the lodge is heated by a few space heaters is unture (although the initial allegation was later changed by DANO when he was called on it). The lodge (a recently renovated 3-bedroom property) has two 5000 BTU heating and cooling units as well as blowing fan heaters in each of the bedrooms. We personally stay there when we have hunters and I would never allow my small children to stay any place that was inadequately heated and cooled. The weather was abnormally cold during this hunt (mid-20s which is rare for mid-GA in November), but had we known that any hunter was uncomfortable in anyway (and they were asked), we would have made IMMEDIATE provisions. It's hard to correct a perceived problem AFTER the hunters have gone. As far as the front of the unit falling off, I'm not sure... We stayed there with seven children running all around it last week and didn't have a problem, but I will check on that tomorrow morning...
It is our goal, and has always been our policy for the past 13 years, to do anything and everything in our controllable power to make any guest that goes on any hunt in Georgia or North America have the best, fair-chase hunt possible.
2. Re DANO'S Accusations of False Photos. 100% of the photos on the entire WNW Inc website are of animals harvested on WNW hunts or on properties managed by WNW Inc. A VAST majority of the photos were taken on of kills on the same properties that were hunted in this particular hunt.
3. DANO's Accusations of a "Drunk Guide": It is the policy of Woods-N-Water Inc that no hunter and no guide drink before or during a hunt. Social drinking is acceptable (at the hunter's discretion) AFTER everyone is safe and sound back at the lodge. In this case, a hunter and the guide had one beverage each while waiting on the rest of the party to come from the field. This situation has been addressed and will not happen again. We have no knowledge of any guide ever drinking and driving with our hunters.
Our guides do anything and everything within their power to make for a successful and enjoyable hunt for all of our clients, including scouting, guiding, sometimes sharing personal equipment and cooking for hunters at their own discretion, as they did with this group of hunters.
4. Re DANO's comment on foodplots: We personally manage 17 acres of year-round foodplots in Johnson County. Are the foodplots the best they've ever been and exactly the way we would like for them to be right now? No, not after several months of a rain shortage. No crops are the way we would like for them to be in our area, either. However, the plots have been managed to the best of our ability with the existing climate and conditions.
5. Re DANO's complaint about Wild Dogs: Those two words explain the situation that any hunter understands. They're wild and therefore unmanageable. Not a normal occurance, but one that is uncontrollable, nonetheless...
6. Re DANO's complaint about the Farmer: There is farm land near some of the hunting property and on occasion, a farmer will be work in his field during hunting hours. Apparently the wildlife are quite used to the normal sounds and activities of this area as one of the largest deer ever taken was taken in this same location WHILE the farmer was harrowing the SAME FIELD! In this case, the situation was discussed with the hunter and he was offered the chance to move to another stand, but he decided to stay at that one.
7. RE Question (from someone on the post) about meals... Meals are not provided for individual hunts, but everything necessary for a group to entertain and feed themselves is: pots and pans, utensils, plates, glasses, coffee cups, stove, dishwasher, microwave, and refrigerator. A large grill is provided as well as a fire-pit near the pond for fire-side visits and a 1200 sq ft deck with tables and chairs. A washer and dryer are provided, as is satellite television. The interior of the cabin has just completed total renovation and the deck recently built.
Also, an endless supply of restaurants are available within a 15 minute drive of the lodge in two different directions, should a group choose not to cook for themselves...
8. RE Accusation of Seeing "No Shooters": According to one of the guides for this hunt, a big buck was spotted on the first morning of the hunt, but the hunter was unable to get a shot at him. The hunter chose to hunt from the same stand for the duration of the hunt, but did not have another chance at the deer. Deer movement is another aspect of hunting that is uncontrollable for any outfitter or hunter.
9. RE: Ramey Accusation of "False Advertising": There never has been, not will their ever be, one single word or photo of false advertising as any part of WNW Inc or any company or product that we are associated with. Period. To say or imply otherwise is slanderous.
There are two things that I've learned after dealing with hunters for the past thirteen years:
1) If a hunter takes a deer, he/she will always be happy with a hunt no matter any other aspect of the situation. If he doesn't take a deer, he will often find anything to complain about, down to if the toilet paper is soft enough or not.
2) A seasoned hunter understands that when he purchases a fair-chase hunt, he is purchasing the right to hunt on specific land for specific game at a specific time and the right to possibly harvest an animal. While evertyhing possible is done to ensure a kill for every hunter, in a fair-chase hunt deer roam free and many elements of the hunt are outside anyone's control. All of our hunts are fair-chase hunts under "real hunting conditions" (as referred to by one of the hunters in the Ramey hunt).
As I've shared, our goal is, and has always been, to provide the best possible hunt to every single client that we are priviledged to serve and nothing less was the goal for this group of hunters, and nothing less will ever be our goal. It was our desire that this group of hunters enjoy their family time together, have fun making memories in the great outdoors, and have a successful hunt, just as we hope for all hunters. We were unaware that they alledgedly were unhappy with anything until after they returned home (as you'll see from the guide's notes below).
Everyone involved in WNW Inc always has the goal that each hunter will tag out with a deer that matches his or her dream for their trip, but as is the nature of hunting, that doesn't always happen for us on personal hunts, for our hunters, or for anyone hunting anywhere around the world.
To share an opinion (be it postive or negative), a disappointment, a frustration, an observation, or a disgust
is expected, welcomed and more than fair... To maliciously, hatefully, deliberately and deceitfully attack is another altogether...
Respectfully submitted as my one and only submission,
Conni Fennell-Burley
Owner of the lodge...
Co-Owner of Woods-N-Water, Inc.
From our guide....
"One young man brought everyone on this hunt. I knew up-front that it must be their first experience on a paid hunt. The young man complaining made the comment on the first day that this hunting "was like real hunting", not what he had expected. I believe he expected a herd of deer to come by about 9-9:30 am. When that didn't happen on the first morning, he appeared to be disappointed from then on.
The group was somewhat unprepared. I loaned them my orange vest, my rifle (one of thehunters had a broken scope) and my binoculars. We grilled for them, fixed lunch for them and enjoyed eating with them.
About the guide being drunk and running off the road, etc. Whomever wanted drinks did so after the hunt and at the cabin except for one night. I drank a beer with the hunter after the hunt while we waited on the others, which will not happen again. I know of no instance where I ran off of the road. If I did, drinking was the problem. The other guide did not drink at all and does not drink at all.
I can't comment about the dogs running on the property. I didn't hear them, but it is possible as dogs have been heard in the area before. As for the farmers tilling their fields, they were told we would move them to another location but the hunter said it was okay to stay there.
I would say that WNW went as far as it could to please these hunters. As far as the heat goes, there are two large window heaters in the cabin and at least one electrical fan heater in each room and plenty of extra bedding. We stayed in the cabin with them and were comfortable.
I personally saw nothing wrong with this operation. In the ten years that I have been helping Blaine and WNW, this is only the second time I've heard anyone complain about anything and they, too, seemed to expect the buck of a lifetime to show by 9:15am or so. Those of us who have spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars chasing the buck know the real facts. Inexperience and being unprepared can make for a bad time at deer camp. And hunting shows are filmed for days and weeks before capturing a kill for TV.
I am truly sorry if they didn't have a good time, but I found it hard to believe that they were unhappy as they ALL told me that they had a great time as they were leaving camp. Nothing else was mentioned."
As written by our guide.
Unbelievable.
"Had an enjoyable weekend. Seen a lot of deer, but no trophys. Thanks _______ & ________."
Dannny, _____, _____, ______ & _____ Ramey."
(as quoted in the guestbook following the 1222DANO/Danny Ramey hunt with WNW Inc., which I am holding in my hand...)
I am sitting here at my desk in absolute amazement and disbelief at the litany of accusations, fallacies, and slander that has unfolded over the past few days from grown men who are incredibly brazen and brave when sitting at home in front of a keyboard under hidden names, most of which have never heard the name Blaine Burley or known about this company before this malicious posting began.
Having never gone on a forum before, I am also in shock that grown men, hunters who are supposed to the best of the best men out there, will sit in front of a computer screen and personally attack someone (and eachother) to the point that the webmaster has to pull the posting as a principal dealing with children.
Having recently realized that this absurdity was going on and having initially chosen to ignore such, the level of maliciousness and deceit has grown to the point that I will gladly let you know exactly what is going on with WNW Inc, 1222DANO's (Danny Ramey) hunt, and our company.
Let me begin by acknowledging that not one reply on 1222DANO's accusatory posting came from anyone within our organization. We weren't even aware that any of this was going on until almost a week after it had begun and after Blaine had left home for a hunt (which he is still on and has not had the joy of reading this bantering). In the closing post, it was stated that the hunter and the outfitter had shared their say, but that wasn't the case. Every reply came from cyber-land, although apparently a few came from people that know us personally, but not one from us.
Well, here you go...
1. Re DANO's Accusations about the lodge: I personally own the lodge (pictures available at woodsnwaterinc.com) and to say that the lodge is heated by a few space heaters is unture (although the initial allegation was later changed by DANO when he was called on it). The lodge (a recently renovated 3-bedroom property) has two 5000 BTU heating and cooling units as well as blowing fan heaters in each of the bedrooms. We personally stay there when we have hunters and I would never allow my small children to stay any place that was inadequately heated and cooled. The weather was abnormally cold during this hunt (mid-20s which is rare for mid-GA in November), but had we known that any hunter was uncomfortable in anyway (and they were asked), we would have made IMMEDIATE provisions. It's hard to correct a perceived problem AFTER the hunters have gone. As far as the front of the unit falling off, I'm not sure... We stayed there with seven children running all around it last week and didn't have a problem, but I will check on that tomorrow morning...
It is our goal, and has always been our policy for the past 13 years, to do anything and everything in our controllable power to make any guest that goes on any hunt in Georgia or North America have the best, fair-chase hunt possible.
2. Re DANO'S Accusations of False Photos. 100% of the photos on the entire WNW Inc website are of animals harvested on WNW hunts or on properties managed by WNW Inc. A VAST majority of the photos were taken on of kills on the same properties that were hunted in this particular hunt.
3. DANO's Accusations of a "Drunk Guide": It is the policy of Woods-N-Water Inc that no hunter and no guide drink before or during a hunt. Social drinking is acceptable (at the hunter's discretion) AFTER everyone is safe and sound back at the lodge. In this case, a hunter and the guide had one beverage each while waiting on the rest of the party to come from the field. This situation has been addressed and will not happen again. We have no knowledge of any guide ever drinking and driving with our hunters.
Our guides do anything and everything within their power to make for a successful and enjoyable hunt for all of our clients, including scouting, guiding, sometimes sharing personal equipment and cooking for hunters at their own discretion, as they did with this group of hunters.
4. Re DANO's comment on foodplots: We personally manage 17 acres of year-round foodplots in Johnson County. Are the foodplots the best they've ever been and exactly the way we would like for them to be right now? No, not after several months of a rain shortage. No crops are the way we would like for them to be in our area, either. However, the plots have been managed to the best of our ability with the existing climate and conditions.
5. Re DANO's complaint about Wild Dogs: Those two words explain the situation that any hunter understands. They're wild and therefore unmanageable. Not a normal occurance, but one that is uncontrollable, nonetheless...
6. Re DANO's complaint about the Farmer: There is farm land near some of the hunting property and on occasion, a farmer will be work in his field during hunting hours. Apparently the wildlife are quite used to the normal sounds and activities of this area as one of the largest deer ever taken was taken in this same location WHILE the farmer was harrowing the SAME FIELD! In this case, the situation was discussed with the hunter and he was offered the chance to move to another stand, but he decided to stay at that one.
7. RE Question (from someone on the post) about meals... Meals are not provided for individual hunts, but everything necessary for a group to entertain and feed themselves is: pots and pans, utensils, plates, glasses, coffee cups, stove, dishwasher, microwave, and refrigerator. A large grill is provided as well as a fire-pit near the pond for fire-side visits and a 1200 sq ft deck with tables and chairs. A washer and dryer are provided, as is satellite television. The interior of the cabin has just completed total renovation and the deck recently built.
Also, an endless supply of restaurants are available within a 15 minute drive of the lodge in two different directions, should a group choose not to cook for themselves...
8. RE Accusation of Seeing "No Shooters": According to one of the guides for this hunt, a big buck was spotted on the first morning of the hunt, but the hunter was unable to get a shot at him. The hunter chose to hunt from the same stand for the duration of the hunt, but did not have another chance at the deer. Deer movement is another aspect of hunting that is uncontrollable for any outfitter or hunter.
9. RE: Ramey Accusation of "False Advertising": There never has been, not will their ever be, one single word or photo of false advertising as any part of WNW Inc or any company or product that we are associated with. Period. To say or imply otherwise is slanderous.
There are two things that I've learned after dealing with hunters for the past thirteen years:
1) If a hunter takes a deer, he/she will always be happy with a hunt no matter any other aspect of the situation. If he doesn't take a deer, he will often find anything to complain about, down to if the toilet paper is soft enough or not.
2) A seasoned hunter understands that when he purchases a fair-chase hunt, he is purchasing the right to hunt on specific land for specific game at a specific time and the right to possibly harvest an animal. While evertyhing possible is done to ensure a kill for every hunter, in a fair-chase hunt deer roam free and many elements of the hunt are outside anyone's control. All of our hunts are fair-chase hunts under "real hunting conditions" (as referred to by one of the hunters in the Ramey hunt).
As I've shared, our goal is, and has always been, to provide the best possible hunt to every single client that we are priviledged to serve and nothing less was the goal for this group of hunters, and nothing less will ever be our goal. It was our desire that this group of hunters enjoy their family time together, have fun making memories in the great outdoors, and have a successful hunt, just as we hope for all hunters. We were unaware that they alledgedly were unhappy with anything until after they returned home (as you'll see from the guide's notes below).
Everyone involved in WNW Inc always has the goal that each hunter will tag out with a deer that matches his or her dream for their trip, but as is the nature of hunting, that doesn't always happen for us on personal hunts, for our hunters, or for anyone hunting anywhere around the world.
To share an opinion (be it postive or negative), a disappointment, a frustration, an observation, or a disgust
is expected, welcomed and more than fair... To maliciously, hatefully, deliberately and deceitfully attack is another altogether...
Respectfully submitted as my one and only submission,
Conni Fennell-Burley
Owner of the lodge...
Co-Owner of Woods-N-Water, Inc.
From our guide....
"One young man brought everyone on this hunt. I knew up-front that it must be their first experience on a paid hunt. The young man complaining made the comment on the first day that this hunting "was like real hunting", not what he had expected. I believe he expected a herd of deer to come by about 9-9:30 am. When that didn't happen on the first morning, he appeared to be disappointed from then on.
The group was somewhat unprepared. I loaned them my orange vest, my rifle (one of thehunters had a broken scope) and my binoculars. We grilled for them, fixed lunch for them and enjoyed eating with them.
About the guide being drunk and running off the road, etc. Whomever wanted drinks did so after the hunt and at the cabin except for one night. I drank a beer with the hunter after the hunt while we waited on the others, which will not happen again. I know of no instance where I ran off of the road. If I did, drinking was the problem. The other guide did not drink at all and does not drink at all.
I can't comment about the dogs running on the property. I didn't hear them, but it is possible as dogs have been heard in the area before. As for the farmers tilling their fields, they were told we would move them to another location but the hunter said it was okay to stay there.
I would say that WNW went as far as it could to please these hunters. As far as the heat goes, there are two large window heaters in the cabin and at least one electrical fan heater in each room and plenty of extra bedding. We stayed in the cabin with them and were comfortable.
I personally saw nothing wrong with this operation. In the ten years that I have been helping Blaine and WNW, this is only the second time I've heard anyone complain about anything and they, too, seemed to expect the buck of a lifetime to show by 9:15am or so. Those of us who have spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars chasing the buck know the real facts. Inexperience and being unprepared can make for a bad time at deer camp. And hunting shows are filmed for days and weeks before capturing a kill for TV.
I am truly sorry if they didn't have a good time, but I found it hard to believe that they were unhappy as they ALL told me that they had a great time as they were leaving camp. Nothing else was mentioned."
As written by our guide.
op2:
