Reloading accuracy help

[Ketch22]

Hey everyone, I’m new here and in desperate need of help. I’ve been reloading for my Remington 700 ADL in .308 for approximately 3 years. For three years I’ve thought I’ve had my load dialed in. I’m using hornady brass, CCI Large rifle primers, 41 grains of IMR 4895, and 165 grain Sierra game king boat tail hollow points. I’m also using a Vortex diamondback 3.5x10x50 scope. At one hundred yards, on most days I can hold a sub MOA group. Last week I had my first opportunity to shoot out to 200-300 yards.

At 200 yards I had 14 inch drop and a 10 inch grouping with three shots. At 300 I wasn’t even on paper and I had two targets stacked on top of one another. I initially thought my loads were just to light. I went out and bought hornady 165 grain SST superpeformance and headed back to the range.

The results were 2 inch groups at 100 that were very inconsistent and 3 inch groups at 200 that were hitting 2 inches right. 300 was about an 8 inch group and 11 inches in drop.

I’m shooting off bags and taking my time with the whole process. Before my firearm skills come into question, I’m an army veteran and current LEO. I shoot weekly and can hit golf balls at 25 yards with iron sights using my Sig P229 chambered in 357 sig, so I have a fairly good grasp on proper shooting.

Would using a heavier bullet be helpful or am I missing something.

 

[Ketch22]

I should also add that Remington says my barrel is a 1/10 twist

 

[nmurph]

Check your screws on the scope and action. Then swap out another scope if you have one to see if that helps. Change one variable at the time until you find the culprit.

 

[Ketch22]

I just had the scope put on, I haven’t had issues with it, but I will double check that for sure.

 

[Jester896]

I just had the scope put on, I haven’t had issues with it, but I will double check that for sure.

is that the only variable that has changed in this time? Do I understand that you didn't previously try it at those distances with the previous scope?

 

[rugerfan]

Check everything first. As stated above check the scope mount screws and the scope ring screws. Then check the action screws that hold the stock on. ( check on line for specifications on tightening the action screws).

Then as said, swap out the scope just to test if maybe the scope is malfunctioning.

Next I would suspect maybe a little copper fouling in the barrel. Might try to clean the barrel with something that will remove the copper and with that said, I did this with my 300 Win mag last year, and it took the copper fouling out, however when I went to shoot it again, it took about 6 to 8 rounds down the barrel until the accuracy was back to what I wanted.

Also don't disregard the possibility that you just had an off day and things weren't going so good for you.

Hope you can resolve your issue.

 

[Ketch22]

It could be the fowling, I haven’t cleaned it in about 40 rounds or so, I was just holding such good groups I didn’t want to change anything. But this was the first time I have ever shot at those distances. With my had loads I shot at 100 and had three rounds with about a 1 inch group, one round I shanked a bit but two were cutting holes. Then I immediately went to 200 and had a 14 inch drop and massive spread, so my
Thinking was that the bullet was too light and not stabilizing correctly. The only reason this is a frantic issue is that hunting season is 10 days away, I thought I was dialed in until now

 

[pdsniper]

yea you got something seriously wrong if its doing that and bullet being to light should not be the problem, where you see stabilization problems is when the bullet is to heavy for the twist rate but with a 1-10 that should not be a problem, sounds more like an issue with your gun more than ammo, where do you live in the Atlanta area ?

 

[wareagle700]

Try a different scope, I've sent all but 1 Vortex back to the factory for one issue or another. Just because it's new doesn't mean its working right.

10" groups at 200 yards are horrible, even with a bad load. Something mechanical isn't right.

 

[Ketch22]

I don’t even live in Georgia, I live in Pennsylvania. Google brought me here so I figured it couldn’t hurt to ask here.

Luckily the guys I hunt with have other rifles I can use. I’m going to give it a good cleaning tonight and check all the screws. I’ll take it back out to the range either Saturday or Tuesday. And try my hand loads one more time and factory ammo. If I’m still having major issues I’ll have to swap out the scope, see what it does, and then deal with vortex if that’s the issue.

 

[nmurph]

It's not the loads or fouling- you've got an issue related to your scope.

 

[Dub]

It could be the fowling, I haven’t cleaned it in about 40 rounds or so, I was just holding such good groups I didn’t want to change anything. But this was the first time I have ever shot at those distances. With my had loads I shot at 100 and had three rounds with about a 1 inch group, one round I shanked a bit but two were cutting holes. Then I immediately went to 200 and had a 14 inch drop and massive spread, so my
Thinking was that the bullet was too light and not stabilizing correctly. The only reason this is a frantic issue is that hunting season is 10 days away, I thought I was dialed in until now

You've been running reloading for this gun with great results and the same bullet recipe for 3 years and out of the blue something changes.

My initial thought was something is up with either:
? action bedding tension (screws cinched down too tight or loosened somehow
? scope rings or base (something loosed)
? new scope

Thing is, though, you are getting the normal good results at 100 yards so you can rule the stuff above out, I'd suspect.

So....what is different ?

What is the new variable ?

But this was the first time I have ever shot at those distances.

Please don't take this the wrong way, because I don't mean this in any way to reflect poorly upon your shooting.

Simple fact is....at least among most of the guys I've hunted with (including me)......we shoot our deer rifles at 100 yds for some pre-season confirmation that all is well.

When we hunt (again....myself and the guys I've hunted with) we often are hunting wooded areas and small plots that offer shots of 150 yds or less.

Even when I've hunted logging road and powerline stands the shots weren't too much further.

It's rare that we'd use practice shooting ranges that extend to 200yds....and even more rare that we'd spend the time practicing on them.

I remember my brother-in-law's first 200yd session.

He'd bought a new 300WinMag and said he was having a fit getting it sighted in. The nearest pistol range I knew of to his home also had a 200yd rifle bench set up, too. He was all over the place and said something was wrong with the gun.

I'd brought my .270 along and admittedly was having some "issues" getting acceptable groups. I'd just shot my rifle a week prior and was confident it was solid.

I forced myself to get more steady behind the rifle and also to adjust the scope's focus until the 200yd target was a clear as I could get it with the 10X setting.

My group was fine.

I tried his rifle after a while and it was fine, too.

200yds was a distance that told on me.


I'd give that same trusty .308Win another try at 100yd first......then get steady on that 200yd line again.

As you mentioned, fouling may be an issue.....clean it first and see how it does on the next 100yd session then stretch it out.

 

[Ketch22]

The ego was checked at the door when I signed on hahaha, I’ve been in enough forums to know how it can go. I should say these are the first time I’ve shot at these distances with this specific rifle. I’ve shot those distances in the military no problem. All the information you guys have stated on here is good. I have a 100 yard range 5 min from home so I’ll clean it tonight, check all the screws and then tomorrow while my kids are in school I’ll run over there.

The 1,2, & 300 yard range is an hour from my house so I’ll have to wait until the weekend or Tuesday to put there.

I’ll post pictures and results on here tomorrow.

 

[JeffinPTC]

Belong to the NRA? this month's American Rifleman has an article about cleaning, then clean some more. rinse. repeat.

Let me say again, just to make sure the point is clear—when a good rifle suddenly goes bad, more often than not, bore fouling is the reason. It’s first on the checklist.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...ing-with-fouling-getting-out-what-you-put-in/

 

[Ketch22]

Great read, thanks for the info. Cleaning party tonight.

 

[Elkbane]

As others have noted, there is something grossly wrong with your scope setup or your stock screw torque. This is the telling factor: A 308 165 grain bullet traveling at nominal 2800 fps, sighted in dead on 100 yards should only be about 3.5" low at 200 yards. Yours is hitting 14" low. Fowling will affect the GROUPING, but it's probably not going to account for another 9" of drop in an extra 100 yards - at least none of the problem guns I've ever done rehab on have done that....I think your scope tube has a bend in it....

I'd do a couple of things, just because it's good discipline on problem guns:
1) Clean the barrel, and I mean take out everything down to bare metal, as-new condition.
2)remove the scope from the rings and lay a straight edge in the lower ring caps to see if the cap surfaces are parallel. This is the most common culprit on scope setup. During final polishing of the top of the action, the factory often gets a little exuberant in polishing out all the surface blemishes which results in the top surface not being parallel. You screw your mounts down on that non-parallel surface and the delta is transferred to the top of the mounts. You put your scope rings on and the delta is transferred to the bottom of the rings. You install your scope, tighten down the top caps and the torque from the scope ring screws actually BEND the scope tube consistent with the amount of the non-parallel delta.

Three ways to fix it. Bed the bases (expensive and requires some skill, but the ONLY fix if the surface is way out of whack). Hone (lap) the rings to parrallel with a lapping bar and abrasive valve grinding compound (need a gunsmith or someone with the equipment, works well for moderate non-parallel surfaces). Install Burris Signature Zee rings with synthetic inserts (cheapest and works for moderate non-parallel surfaces). For a hunting rifle that get only a moderate amount of use, I'd do option 3, the Burris Signature Zee rings. For a rifle that gets a lot of use, or one that really has to be right, all the time, I'd check to see how bad off it is an then do #1 and #2.

At least that's how I go about it.....
Elkbane

 

[Ketch22]

That is a great assessment but the 14 inch drop was only with my reloaded rounds, the factory rounds I shot were about a 2.5 inch group just pushed two inches right. They held that true 2 inch drop

 

[Jester896]

in reality if you consistently produce 1" group at 100...respectively they will be 2" @ 200 and 3" @300

your round count may be your issue. My 700P starts opening up somewhere around 60 rounds and it probably gets shot more than your hunting rifle. That might be where I start...but just do 1 thing at a time...it isn't a race...even though it is last minute . I agree with pdsniper that the twist rate and bullet weight isn't the problem.

 

[WishboneW]

When installing your scope did you level it with a bubble level? Crosshairs vertical and horizontal to the center of the bore?

 

[Ketch22]

I paid a gunsmith to do it.