Scope recommendations with MOA reticle

[TurkeyDreamer]

I am new to the AR 15 world, and recently purchased a Bushmaster carbine. Sitting on top of it is a Strikefire II Red Dot which is perfect for my application on that rifle.

Now I am in the process of purchasing a Rock River Varmint Rifle, so I want to be able to shoot b/n 100-700 yards. Generally, anything 400+ is going to be for paper target shooting only, but I would like to be skilled enough one day to consider taking a coyote from that distance.

Which leads me to the reason for this post. I believe that I a have narrowed down what I want to the following:

A) MOA reticle
B) 3-4 low end power and 12-16 high end power
C) 40-44 mm objective
D) Turret adjustments with return to zero capability
E) 30mm tube
F) Second focal plane

I would like to do all of this for $500-$800. I could afford to spend more but I don't see the need right now until I gain more experience.

I have a variety of scopes on my hunting caliber rifles including Zeiss, Leopold, and Nikon, so I am not a scope snob or brand loyalist. I simply want what I feel is best for a particular need.

I have scoured manufacturer's websites and have concluded that the Vortex Viper HS-T 4-16x44 is the only scope that fits all of the above specifications. There are other quality scopes out there, but none that seem to fit what I want/need.

I am looking to see if there is anyone out there that has experience beyond what I have found and provide additional information. I would welcome opinions if you choose, but would rather this not turn into a discussion of how a 1" tube is just fine that a 30mm tube is not necessary.

Thanks for looking and responding.

 

[RH Clark]

SWFA SS, but I prefer mills as simpler to do the math for me.

 

[TurkeyDreamer]

RH Clark,

Thanks for the reply. I looked at the SWFA page, and it looks like this is the closest to what I am looking for.

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-15x42-Tactical-Rifle-Scope-P87716.aspx

However, that reticle looks like it would be very difficult to see in low light situations. Also, I do not see an MOA reticle offered. Everything listed shows only MIL. At least the one I linked above has turrets adjustable in MIL along with a MIL reticle; some of the scopes shown are MIL dot reticle but MOA turrets.

For now, I plan to stay with MOA/MOA as the math is simpler to me.

 

[GT-40 GUY]

I have been using a Bushnell Tactical AR/223 scope with 4.5-18x40mm scope with their reticule calibrated for 55 grain bullets. You can hold on your bullet holes at 100+ yards at 18 power. I put a Custom Turret Label calibrated in yards which is dead on out to 800 + yards. At longer ranges than 150 yds. I use my range finder to get the distance then turn the turret to the yardage, hold for wind and shoot. I have been shooting out to 1,000 yards in competition for quite a few years and this system works extremely well.

http://customturretsystems.com

gt40

PS: The target was shot with my long range rifle which is a 6mm Norma BR. at 400 yards while testing my new custom turret on my 6-24x50mm Vortex PST FFP MOA scope. I sighted in at 200 yds. then turned the custom turret to 4 for 400 yards and quickly shot 3 times and this was the result.

 

[wareagle700]

Id go with either the SWFA 3-15 or the Vortex Viper. Both good scopes. Sounds like you have done good research though. You will be happy with the Vortex.

 

[TurkeyDreamer]

GT-40, thanks for responding. I was hoping you would as I've seen many of your other posts and I know that you are knowledgeable in this area. I've also seen the pictures you included on other forums and that is quite impressive! I have been considering a custom turret system. The thing that is holding me back right now is that I do not know which load I will be shooting most often. I also know the ballistics will change depending on the temperature, elevation, and humidity. The Rock River varmint rifle is 20" bbl 1:8 twist so I am going to try out some of the heavier loads. I will check into seeing if the Vortex has the ability to add custom turrets.

Wareagle700, yes, I try to do as much on-line research as possible. I've read numerous forums and discussions. Certainly an argument could be made for several other optics out there. If I had to pick without the research, I'd probably go with Leupold based on their reputation and my previous experience, but I just couldn't find a product that they carry that came close to the specifications I listed. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking a company (like SWFA) that merits strong consideration.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[TurkeyDreamer]

Vortex does have customizable turrets.

 

[wareagle700]

Try and get to know the MOA based system first. Custom turrets, labels, etc... seem like they make everything easier but really limit you to one rifle, one load, and certain distances. With a MOA or mil based scope, you can use that system with any rifle or load. Either way, you have to know the distance to your target and spin the turret. Once you understand how to dial in MOA its just as quick and much more versatile.

 

[RH Clark]

RH Clark,

Thanks for the reply. I looked at the SWFA page, and it looks like this is the closest to what I am looking for.

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-15x42-Tactical-Rifle-Scope-P87716.aspx

However, that reticle looks like it would be very difficult to see in low light situations. Also, I do not see an MOA reticle offered. Everything listed shows only MIL. At least the one I linked above has turrets adjustable in MIL along with a MIL reticle; some of the scopes shown are MIL dot reticle but MOA turrets.

For now, I plan to stay with MOA/MOA as the math is simpler to me.

Well, I was thinking they had an MOA version. Perhaps I had them confused with the Nightforce NXS which would be my choice funds allowing.

 

[2 UP]

If you go with Vortex and buy from a retailer, you might want to give Camerland a call. They usually have "demos" for really good prices. If you go used, Sniper's Hide and AR15.com forums have some good deals pop up.

 

[TurkeyDreamer]

Thanks guys

 

[MuXi115]

Try and get to know the MOA based system first. Custom turrets, labels, etc... seem like they make everything easier but really limit you to one rifle, one load, and certain distances. With a MOA or mil based scope, you can use that system with any rifle or load. Either way, you have to know the distance to your target and spin the turret. Once you understand how to dial in MOA its just as quick and much more versatile.

This is the truth!

And as the OP mentioned, it all changes with the weather. I'd recommend taking a course from some of the very good instructors in the state as they are a wealth of knowledge.

 

[cmshoot]

I'll recommend the Nightforce SHV 3-10x42mm. It meets all of your criteria except for the maximum power.

A 10x scope with good glass and coatings will be more usable at distance than a 12x with inferior glass and coatings.

I have one en route, should be in this week or early next. You're welcome to take a gander at it. I'll be doing a testing and evaluation and publishing the results, you're welcome to look through it and shoot it if we time it right.

 

[TurkeyDreamer]

cmshoot,

You've had me really thinking for the past two days. First, let me say thanks for the offer to look through your Nightforce scope once it arrives. If you were right around the corner I'd definitely be interested.

However, after comparing these two scopes on paper, I feel it's going to be hard for me to justify the $300 difference and losing 6 more units of magnification. I haven't ruled out the NF yet, but as of now I'll probably stay with the Vortex.

Thanks for your recommendation. I hope you really enjoy that new NF!

 

[cmshoot]

Anytime!

Don't discount the NF because the top end power ain't as high. The target through the Vortex will be larger at 16x will be larger than viewing the same target through the NF at 10x, but it won't be anywhere near as clear, sharp, and bright.

I've owned a bunch of both and they're the 2 most common scope brands I see come through my school. I'm looking through NF and VVPST scopes almspy weekly out to 1,000yds and further. The VVPST is a heckuva scope for the money spent, but it ain't close to being a NF.

I have several VVPST's at the house, in additional to a slew of NF's. You're welcome to look through both and compare.

 

[TurkeyDreamer]

Just as a follow up, I went with the Vortex. It made a great Father's Day gift! Now I just need that Rock River to come in so I can mount it and try it out.

 

[JeffinPTC]

Vortex Mil/LE discount

I don't have any experience with vortex, but a friend has one recommended by PDSniper on order using a mil discount. If anyone else following this thread is eligible, I understand its 40%

http://www.vortexoptics.com/content/military_le_program

 

[wareagle700]

Vortex scopes are good to go. I haven't owned a PST but have used them and do own a Viper HS on a hunting rifle and have owned a Razor HD in the past. Both track dead on and have been 100% reliable.

Glass quality in the Viper line isn't bad, but by no means is it comparable to Nightforce or even the new Leupold VX3i and VX6 scopes. However, Vortex has a great reputation for reliability and precise tracking. To me, in a long range scope, that is much more important than slight variations in glass quality.

 

[GT-40 GUY]

Ttt.

 

[DYI hunting]

I was quite happy with the Vortex PST and Leupold Mark AR lines. I've had several of both and both had clear glass and tracked well. The Vortex is a bit crisper.