Welcome Guest!
Snake Bite Protocol.
- Thread starter The Rodney
- Start date
Hillbilly stalker
Senior Member
^^^A weak spot I see with that training right there is the dog very well may be keying off on the cage instead of the snake. You could simply put the cage there empty and check it yourself. I use a freshly killed beheaded snake, they will rattle for hours sometimes. You also need to see how the dog will react when they think you are not around. I saw program from South Dakota where they were breaking bird dogs. They used a smaller profile of a cage and put in in taller grass. That way the dog learns to not use just their sight and hearing to avoid the snakes, they use all their senses. I often drag the snake thru the brush or grass because pups when first starting to hunt will trail a snake out of curiosity.
GLS
Classic Southern Gentleman
While I have had my dogs "refreshed" on caged snakes, by far the best snake breaking I've subjected my dogs to was Dr. Bud Calderwood's method of using live snakes on the ground with their jaws taped shut. The dogs were subjected to sight, scent and sound detection. My dogs' reaction to the snakes was curiosity and not aggression. Dr. Bud had a huge EDB and a feisty cottonmouth when I first carried Abby to Alachua, FL for the session. After the first session we engaged him to come to the local gun club for several years. Due to increased regulatory actions after some bozo had a king cobra escape from its pen in south Florida, Bud disposed of his snakes because of the expense he was facing to comply with regulations.
I resisted for years having the Red Rocks vaccine administered to both Britts. The efficacy was questioned by some veterinary authorities. No double blind testing was done to prove effectiveness. Subjecting dogs to venom with and without the vaccine was violative of veterinary medicine ethics. That and the fact it was developed with Western Diamond back venom gave rise to questions about its effectiveness on Eastern venomous snakes. I finally decided that if one of my dogs was snake bitten and I hadn't done everything possible to prevent the fatality, I would kick myself in the rear until the day I died. They've been vaccinated the last two seasons and I expect to do so this season.
I carry Benadryl to prevent the throat from swelling closed. It's better than nothing on the way to a vet. I don't hunt my dogs if nighttime temps rise above the low 40s and prefer 30s. I blow the whistle when temps hit above the low 50s. Snakes don't hibernate in S. Ga. They brumate and will come out of burrow in the dead of winter to sun around 1 p.m. regardless of air temps. They don't stray far from the gopher tortoise hole on sandhills. I avoid those areas. I've canceled two hunts in the past two years on quota hunts because of balmy nighttime and daytime temps.
One day while woodcock hunting above the temps that I normally shut down, Abby went into a thicket and spun on her paws and ran out barking, atypical conduct of her while hunting. No doubt she got a whiff of a snake and Timmy had not fallen in the well. Gil
I resisted for years having the Red Rocks vaccine administered to both Britts. The efficacy was questioned by some veterinary authorities. No double blind testing was done to prove effectiveness. Subjecting dogs to venom with and without the vaccine was violative of veterinary medicine ethics. That and the fact it was developed with Western Diamond back venom gave rise to questions about its effectiveness on Eastern venomous snakes. I finally decided that if one of my dogs was snake bitten and I hadn't done everything possible to prevent the fatality, I would kick myself in the rear until the day I died. They've been vaccinated the last two seasons and I expect to do so this season.
I carry Benadryl to prevent the throat from swelling closed. It's better than nothing on the way to a vet. I don't hunt my dogs if nighttime temps rise above the low 40s and prefer 30s. I blow the whistle when temps hit above the low 50s. Snakes don't hibernate in S. Ga. They brumate and will come out of burrow in the dead of winter to sun around 1 p.m. regardless of air temps. They don't stray far from the gopher tortoise hole on sandhills. I avoid those areas. I've canceled two hunts in the past two years on quota hunts because of balmy nighttime and daytime temps.
One day while woodcock hunting above the temps that I normally shut down, Abby went into a thicket and spun on her paws and ran out barking, atypical conduct of her while hunting. No doubt she got a whiff of a snake and Timmy had not fallen in the well. Gil
Last edited:
Hillbilly stalker
Senior Member
I saw an episode of Buckmasters in Texas. They had sewn the snakes mouth shut with braided fishing line to conduct ”snake breaking”. I don’t trust anyone enough to hold their head. They threw the live snake on Jackie Bushman and he about stroked out. I totally agree on the Benadryl and it possibly reducing the swelling and cutting off the airway. That article made some good points but it may have been a sales pitch for the anti venom. I know a lot of people who have used Benadryl religiously, saved a lot of dogs. I’ll keep carrying it.
GLS
Classic Southern Gentleman
An local man had a Jack Russell that killed copperheads and was repeatedly bitten by them to the extent that his owner nicknamed him "Zipperhead". He didn't fare well and went legs up permanently when bitten by an EDB. The same man lost two Britts to gators. He saw one taken down while swimming near his dock. The other was presumed taken as he disappeared inexplicably one day. Gil
trad bow
wooden stick slinging driveler
I had my GSP vaccinated the past two years for Lyme and snake bite. My vet said unless I left the south the Lyme shot wasn’t needed and if you wouldn’t hunt your dogs in temperatures past 50 degrees you would be ok. He said here in the south the number one killer of hunting dogs is heat stroke. More dogs are lost during preseason training due to heat than snake bites.
GLS
Classic Southern Gentleman
As for liquid Benadryl I've seen caveats about using adult strength in that it contains alcohol which is toxic to dogs. Child's liquid Benadryl is suitable for small dogs. Also there is a cautionary about using sweetened Benadryl on dogs without checking to see if the sweetener is Xylitol which is highly toxic to dogs. I read the riot act when I find chewing gum in the house containing Xylitol. I've read where a few sticks of gum can kill a dog. Gil
tucker80
Senior Member
I agree about the cages. Some trainers use a mesh sock over the snake.
I was using kick cages at one time until I realized the dog was pointing the cage and not the bird , so yes, the cage is a huge disadvantage in my opinion.
I posted the link because there's other info there as well, like a snake bite kit and a list of things you can carry. Benadryl was one of them.
I can tell you first hand that benedryl does absolutely nothing for a snake bite! Google it and do a little research. I used to believe the old wives tale about benedryl. I've given dogs enough benedryl to choke a horse and it didnt help at all. Dexamethasone is the only solution, I keep it on hand. You can give an antibiotic for secondary infection. No need to rush to vet, take collar off and take dog home. Vet won't do anything other than give a shot of dex and an antibiotic. If it's a lethal bite dog will be dead quickly anyway.
I wonder how many strikes were dry bites when Benedryl was given and perhaps it was thought that it helped?
trad bow
wooden stick slinging driveler
Probably some no doubt were dry bites.
The Rodney
Senior Member
Dbender does that require a prescription from a MD? I do not recognize the generic names. You’ve given snake bit dogs Benadryl? My vet said 1mg per pound. Oral tablet.
Yes, have to gey from vet. I've given benadryl in the past, it does absolutely nothing. One of my dogs has been bitten twice this year alone. Timber rattlers, once on the eyelid. She'll swell up she can't see for a few days, about the third day feel a.little bad but that can be side effect from the steroid.
Hillbilly stalker
Senior Member
The Dex I had was a liquid, didn’t know about the tablet.
The Rodney
Senior Member
Others have commented the Eastern Diamondback is typically more deadly.... if I am understanding correctly. Scary stuff and thanks for the info. I'm not a chemist but a steroid seems to make more sense than an antihistamine.
The most impressive snake on this continent to me. There`s just something about a big diamondback.
The Rodney
Senior Member
I've only seen one. On a shoot in Texas the owner sent some ranch hands to a small lake before we went there to shoot a fishing segment. Got there and that joker was five feet long.... and headless at this point. They found him under the canoe we were to use.
BriarPatch99
Senior Member
Dex is an injectable liquid ...it does not require any special storage other than room temperature and out of direct Sunlight ...
Dex goes to work very soon after injection... where as other treatments like Benadryl liquid or tablet has to work it way though the stomach.
Dex does need to come from a Vet or someone who has got some from a Vet ... We use it often with the hogs/pigs ... it works for other medical needs( like my foot/ankle surgery it was given to me by IV to keep swelling and inflammation under control).
If you have a good relationship with your vet and explain your purpose.... He will probably ask for a dog weight and provide the correct dose.
Keep it handy and use it at first sign of bite .... it would not be harmful to a dog even if it was a dry bite ...
The Rodney
Senior Member
Begs the question…. Do you kill venomous snakes you come across? I have saved many rat snakes from death and got onto a friend for killing one. I did kill a small copperhead in my backyard when the children were toddlers. I kill all black widows. If I come across a rattlesnake on my lease am I obliged to kill it like we do yotes?
Similar threads
