The "word of God"

[pbradley]

2 Peter 1:20 - 21

20 - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 - For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


Revelation 1:1 - a clear claim of divine communication:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.

Jeremiah 30:1 - 2

1 - The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,

2 - Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.

 

[bullethead]

This:



... is not this:



From the article:

Once the Nicea Council meeting was underway Constantine demanded that the 300 bishops make a decision by majority vote defining who Jesus Christ is

Nicea had nothing to do with the canon of Scripture. It was about Arianism which had to do with the identity of Jesus.

If they had to get together to define WHO Jesus was then that has me thinking hmmmmmmmm.

But here is this: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14530a.htm
See: Origins

 

[centerpin fan]

This:

From here; http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/bible/bernstein_who_gave_nt.htm

"Sometimes it is easy to overlook the obvious. Take, for instance, the New Testament. Even though every Christian really knows better, it is easy to forget that the New Testament was not written as one continuous book. Rather, it is a collection of twenty-seven shorter writings which were penned by a variety of authors at differing times and geographical locations and compiled much later. Nowhere in the New Testament do we find a list of what books belong in the New Testament. The “canon” of Scripture is, of course, not “scriptural.”

This brings up anther important question which may not be so obvious. Who, then, decided which books should be included in the New Testament canon and which ones left out?

As a Jewish convert to Christianity via evangelical Protestantism, I once refused to acknowledge that the Church had anything to do with compiling the New Testament. I wanted to believe God chose and collected these books without human involvement. The books, I assumed, somehow validated themselves beyond all reasonable doubt, and early Christians merely recognized their obvious scriptural status.

Though there is some degree of truth in this position, it is by itself naive and unbalanced. The history of early Christianity clearly reveals that God used His Church, composed of flesh-and-blood Christians, as active participants in the process of selecting and establishing the New Testament canon, just as He used real people—with feelings, emotions, unique backgrounds and perspectives—to write the twenty-seven separate books."

... is not this:

All scripture was voted on by man ....

Again, I have no problems with that article. I am very familiar with Fr. Bernstein and think quite highly of him.

 

[centerpin fan]

If they had to get together to define WHO Jesus was then that has me thinking hmmmmmmmm.

There was no controversy on Jesus' identity until Arius began teaching that there was a time when He was a created being. This teaching spread and Nicea was convened to refute it.

But here is this: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14530a.htm
See: Origins

What about "this"? It's a big article.

 

[bullethead]

"The history of early Christianity clearly reveals that God used His Church, composed of flesh-and-blood Christians, as active participants in the process of selecting and establishing the New Testament canon, just as He used real people—with feelings, emotions, unique backgrounds and perspectives—to write the twenty-seven separate books."

Now this was written by a Christian so he is going to say that God chose these people to do it, but the fact is that those people were man and THEY were the deciding factor on what made it in and what did not.

 

[bullethead]

There was no controversy on Jesus' identity until Arius began teaching that there was a time when He was a created being. This teaching spread and Nicea was convened to refute it.



What about "this"? It's a big article.

Hence the see: ORIGINS !

 

[bullethead]

you are very confused concerning the Bible

No actually, not at all

 

[centerpin fan]

Now this was written by a Christian so he is going to say that God chose these people to do it, but the fact is that those people were man and THEY were the deciding factor on what made it in and what did not.

That's not what you said before. You said they took a vote, and they did not.

 

[centerpin fan]

Hence the see: ORIGINS !

I see it and agree with it. What's the "gotcha" that I'm obviously missing?

 

[bullethead]

That's not what you said before. You said they took a vote, and they did not.

It was DECIDED by man any way you want to look at it.

 

[centerpin fan]

It was DECIDED by man any way you want to look at it.

So you take back your previous comment that:

All scripture was voted on by man

 

[atlashunter]

I don't think the Hebrews had a problem distinguishing what was scripture. It was the writings of Moses and the prophets. For the early church, it was the writings of the apostles or their associates (like Luke, for example.)

Let's try this again. I agree with the above but I'm not sure why you said "No" to what I said. Jews do not consider the NT to be divinely inspired scripture just as you don't consider (I assume) the book of Mormon or the Koran to be divinely inspired scripture. Do we agree on that point?

 

[centerpin fan]

Jews do not consider the NT to be divinely inspired scripture ...

... because they do not consider Jesus to be the Messiah. The Messiah is foretold in the OT. The Jews do not believe Jesus fulfilled the prophecies about the Messiah. Therefore, they reject Him and the writings of His followers. That's why I said "no".

 

[bullethead]

So you take back your previous comment that:

I'll take it back if you can show me that it was not voted on.

 

[centerpin fan]

I'll take it back if you can show me that it was not voted on.

You're asking me to prove a negative?

If it was voted on, it should be easy for you to produce some details. So who voted on it? When? Where? How many voted? What was the talley on each book that made the cut? What was the talley on each book that got the axe?

 

[Michael F. Gray]

Bothers me when the ignorant and unlearned make false claims and assert them to be factual professing little other than their own lack of study of the Word of God itself. Read the first book of the Bible,(Genesis), and the Gospel of John.In both cases the first chapter. "In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God."

 

[atlashunter]

... because they do not consider Jesus to be the Messiah. The Messiah is foretold in the OT. The Jews do not believe Jesus fulfilled the prophecies about the Messiah. Therefore, they reject Him and the writings of His followers. That's why I said "no".

Right. Just like you reject Mohammed and Joseph Smith. How is it that Jews, Muslims, and Mormons can't properly identify truly God inspired scripture but you and your Christian brethren can? And why has there been so much disagreement in the christian church, particularly in the early days, on the same point?

I also missed the answer to my question about a perfect God delivering such an important message for humanity in such a haphazard and confusing way.

 

[centerpin fan]

I also missed the answer to my question about a perfect God delivering such an important message for humanity in such a haphazard and confusing way.

God chose to work through people who are haphazard and confusing by nature.

 

[centerpin fan]

And why has there been so much disagreement in the christian church, particularly in the early days, on the same point?

What are you referring to?

 

[TripleXBullies]

Bothers me when the ignorant and unlearned make false claims and assert them to be factual professing little other than their own lack of study of the Word of God itself. Read the first book of the Bible,(Genesis), and the Gospel of John.In both cases the first chapter. "In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God."

So the bible was there before creation of the earth?