Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I think he lives around Albany somewhere, not Enigma! I'm not sure what this was about, just guessin'.
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- Thread starter Fuzzy D Fellers
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I think he lives around Albany somewhere, not Enigma! I'm not sure what this was about, just guessin'.
gordon 2
Senior Member
True, yes. However a day for the Lord... might not be fixed to the... 1000 mile per/hr spin of our top. Was not the earth created on the 3ed day... What was the gauge of days before this? I warn you I'm not the brightest tac in the classroom...when it comes to where science and spirituality intersect. I won a pen knife in grade five for the highest average in science. It was all down hill from that yr regards academics. And I gained our Kingdom when I was a grown man and it has all been down from heaven ever since. I don't have much more to contribute...
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hobbs27
Senior Member
Day 6 if forced into a 24hr day must have been the longest day any man has lived.
Adams first day Gen. 1:27
He is created.
God plants trees which grow in the garden.
God tells Adam to tend and keep the garden.
God formed the animals for companionship for Adam.
God then brought all the animals before Adam to name them.
Adam then realizes the deficiency in the animals as a suitable help meet for himself.
God puts him to sleep and removes a rib.
God then goes away and forms a woman.
God eventually brings the woman to Adam.
Wow! I bet he was glad the next day was a day of rest, can you imagine tending trees and plants that grow faster than kudzu?
Adams first day Gen. 1:27
He is created.
God plants trees which grow in the garden.
God tells Adam to tend and keep the garden.
God formed the animals for companionship for Adam.
God then brought all the animals before Adam to name them.
Adam then realizes the deficiency in the animals as a suitable help meet for himself.
God puts him to sleep and removes a rib.
God then goes away and forms a woman.
God eventually brings the woman to Adam.
Wow! I bet he was glad the next day was a day of rest, can you imagine tending trees and plants that grow faster than kudzu?
gordon 2
Senior Member
Well is creation being re-created now through Christ? If it is the case... then the days of the gentiles...span centuries? Why would a day in the first days of the original creation be different? I don't know... Peter says that a day or time for the Lord is not exactly as we account days for man... or am I incorrect?
And besides, many books in the Bible are poetic ie: not meant to be literal only... why would the creation account be different from one of the bible's poetic books?
NE GA Pappy
Mr. Pappy
except that in Genesis, the word used for day is used through out the remainder of scripture to mean a literal 24 hour long day. And every other time the Bible uses the term evening and morning were a day, it means a literal 24 hour day. Why is Genesis 1 and 2 different???
Why do we need the term day, evening and morning to mean something besides 24 hour day? The only reason is we don't have faith enough to believe God is capable of creating all He did in that time frame. The reason for the unbelief? Science looked at some rocks and fossils and said that looks like it is 100 million years old to me, and Christians bought the story. The whole bait, hook, line and sinker.
hobbs27
Senior Member
Actually..young earth creationism is very new to Christianity. It comes from Ellen G White, a false prophetess of the seventh day Adventist... Even Schofield the dispensationalist uses old earth references in his Bible notes.
^^^This^^^
gordon 2
Senior Member
Well all of scripture perhaps except in the case of Peter regards a 24 hr day.
I can equally say that the only reason that some believe that the term day means a literal 24 hr earth day in Genesis, is because we don't have faith enough to believe that God is able to reveal his truth via spiritual understanding of scripture other than its literal meaning...
It has noting to do with what science says or does not say. I has to do with what Jesus says to the saints regards understanding his parables, such as:
" Whosoever has ears, let them hear."
So perhaps a day in scripture in some cases depends of having ears and not having ears--which might not mean having or not having ears at all, but simply those handed to Jesus by the Father can understand and those who are not can't.... If an ear can be something else than an ear, why can't a day be something else than an earth day?
Do we have cause to understand that our Lord's kingdom, the one Jesus will hand over to the Father is other than a literal kingdom as some of the Jews understood it be,--- that is a political kingdom ? And if we have a good cause, why would a day in Genesis not be similar to one in Christ? ---That is being one thing to those yet in the world, or Carnal Christian and something else to a saint in a sincere and determined relationship with God?
Is it possible that a saint can feed on God's revelation directly from His hands and from scripture?
What about if we let the saints individually chew their own foods; would the nutrients ingested be the same as if pre-chewed as in this?:
Ezekiel 34:10
This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.
You have to ask, "Where is God going with this...?"
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hobbs27
Senior Member
Here's the scofield reference and shows his support for the gap theory.
Gap Theory
The gap theory was made popular by the Scofield Reference Bible (1909), which more than any other single edition of Scripture swept through this country and informed the theology of an entire generation of evangelicals. It became the principal instrument for propagating dispensational theology throughout America. In this Bible, Genesis 1:1 reads, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth,” and verse 2 reads, “And the earth became without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” Other Bibles read, “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” Verse 2 describes what most scholars consider to be the as-yet-unordered, basic structure of the universe—darkness, emptiness. Then the Holy Spirit hovers over the waters (v.2) and God says, “Let there be light” (v.3). Thus came the light and then the creation of the heavens, fish, birds, animals, and so on.
The Hebrew word in verse 2 translated “was” is the very common verb hayah, which ordinarily means “to be.” Hayah means “to become” only in special circumstances, which are not present here. The Scofield Reference Bible translates verse 2 as “became” instead of “was” in order to facilitate the gap theory
Gap Theory
The gap theory was made popular by the Scofield Reference Bible (1909), which more than any other single edition of Scripture swept through this country and informed the theology of an entire generation of evangelicals. It became the principal instrument for propagating dispensational theology throughout America. In this Bible, Genesis 1:1 reads, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth,” and verse 2 reads, “And the earth became without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” Other Bibles read, “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” Verse 2 describes what most scholars consider to be the as-yet-unordered, basic structure of the universe—darkness, emptiness. Then the Holy Spirit hovers over the waters (v.2) and God says, “Let there be light” (v.3). Thus came the light and then the creation of the heavens, fish, birds, animals, and so on.
The Hebrew word in verse 2 translated “was” is the very common verb hayah, which ordinarily means “to be.” Hayah means “to become” only in special circumstances, which are not present here. The Scofield Reference Bible translates verse 2 as “became” instead of “was” in order to facilitate the gap theory
NE GA Pappy
Mr. Pappy
Dake came up with the old earth / gap theory while he was serving time for violation of the Mann act. Transporting a child across state lines for sexual gratification.
hobbs27
Senior Member
From what I've read so far.. Scofield beat him to it, but I'll look into it. The early church didn't make much of it from what I've read so far. Augustine seemed to disagree with 24hr days.. But he didn't know the earth was round at the time.
I think there's like five different theories I've read so far.
hobbs27
Senior Member
http://www.reasons.org/articles/how...-core-tenet-of-american-fundamentalism-part-2
This guy is considered the Father of new earth creationism ..a follower of Ellen G white.
Endnotes:
Seventh-Day Adventism was founded on the “revelations” of Ellen G. White, who took the Genesis creation account literalistically and even claimed that in one of her visions she was “shown the first week of creation” in which “God performed the work of creation in six days and rested on the seventh day.” White also taught “flood geology,” the theory that Noah’s flood was a worldwide catastrophe that reshaped the planet’s surface and buried all the fossils. See Frank M. Hasel, “Ellen G. White and Creationism: How to Deal With Her Statements on Creation and Evolution: Implications and Prospects,” Journal of the Adventist Theological Society 17 (Spring 2006): 232.2.
This guy is considered the Father of new earth creationism ..a follower of Ellen G white.
Endnotes:
Seventh-Day Adventism was founded on the “revelations” of Ellen G. White, who took the Genesis creation account literalistically and even claimed that in one of her visions she was “shown the first week of creation” in which “God performed the work of creation in six days and rested on the seventh day.” White also taught “flood geology,” the theory that Noah’s flood was a worldwide catastrophe that reshaped the planet’s surface and buried all the fossils. See Frank M. Hasel, “Ellen G. White and Creationism: How to Deal With Her Statements on Creation and Evolution: Implications and Prospects,” Journal of the Adventist Theological Society 17 (Spring 2006): 232.2.
NE GA Pappy
Mr. Pappy
if he had read Job who talks about the circle of the earth and light boundrys. Also in Job 26, he speaks of the earth hanging in space on nothing... Wonder how Job traveled into space and saw that...
You know it had to be a revelation from God. He couldn't have seen it. Even Psalms talks of the earth being a sphere with no support system under it.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
I get the feeling it's still early in this one.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I wonder how we should view a water firmament as described in Genesis?
Job 26:10 talks about this. It also could be a circle and not a sphere between the upper and lower waters.
Isaiah 40:22
God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.
"The earth with its surrounding ocean is conceived as a flat disc, on which the arch of heaven comes down."
I don't see how Augustine or anyone else who grew up believing the earth was flat could gather that it was a sphere instead of a round flat circle from reading Job and Isaiah. Their mindset was that it was flat. They wouldn't gather that it was a sphere from scripture.
Job 26:10 talks about this. It also could be a circle and not a sphere between the upper and lower waters.
Isaiah 40:22
God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.
"The earth with its surrounding ocean is conceived as a flat disc, on which the arch of heaven comes down."
I don't see how Augustine or anyone else who grew up believing the earth was flat could gather that it was a sphere instead of a round flat circle from reading Job and Isaiah. Their mindset was that it was flat. They wouldn't gather that it was a sphere from scripture.
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Artfuldodger
Senior Member
If we must assume that a day is a day in scripture then we must assume we think with our heart and have matters of the heart.
The heart is the center of our thinking and not our brain.
Isn't this what scripture teaches?
If we believe science that now says we use our brains, we're falling hook, line, and sinker for science over scripture. Right?
Genesis 2:4
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Looks like everything was created in "one" day. That's what scripture says.
The heart is the center of our thinking and not our brain.
Isn't this what scripture teaches?
If we believe science that now says we use our brains, we're falling hook, line, and sinker for science over scripture. Right?
Genesis 2:4
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Looks like everything was created in "one" day. That's what scripture says.
hobbs27
Senior Member
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Fuzzy D Fellers
Banned
I find it interesting when science unlocks the mysteries of God. God never told us the building blocks to life considering the physics and chemistry of what we are surrounded by. He left it up to society to figure it out.
Fuzzy D Fellers
Banned
One can't bring these questions up in Sunday School or a Church Bible study because people will mark you as a unbeliever. However, Paul directed us to debate the scriptures.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I believe God used science in his creation and left it up to man to discover this. Some people believe God didn't use science and that it is just man's way of trying to explain God's creation.
If they believe this to be true, why do they use science in their daily living to include medical care? Why do they allow their kids to take science class in school? You'd think they would find a Christian school that doesn't teach science.
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