Bullet, Ambush and others....

[ky55]

Yep! When Adam & Eve ate the fruit he said "they have become like us, knowing right from wrong."
Also he says "I am a jealous god, though shalt not worship other gods."

Bart Ehrman on “Henotheism”.

https://ehrmanblog.org/why-not-believe-in-a-different-kind-of-god/



“I would argue that even the religion that became Judaism started out with a multiplicity of deities. The constant injunctions in the Hebrew Bible not to worship other gods almost certainly arose precisely because so many Israelites *were* worshiping other gods. Even though the authors of the Bible insisted on the worship of Yahweh, there is little reason to think that that is what was actually happening on the ground.

Moreover, for most of the Hebrew Bible the kind of conception of the divine is henotheistic rather than monotheistic. In the way I’m defining the terms (various scholars define them variously, but this is the normal way), “henotheism” refers to a religious belief that only one God is to be worshiped, while acknowledging that other gods exist. This seems to be the view of most of the authors of the Old Testament.“

 

[WaltL1]

Originally Posted by Day trip
You have no idea what we mean by God.

Are you privy to some sort of information about a "God" that I'm not aware of?
Keep in mind I was a believer far longer than not.

Trip you made a pretty... I'll call it bold.... statement about what I know/don't know.
Any chance you are going to back it up or is this just a garden variety hit and run?

 

[hummerpoo]

Walt, this is a "hit & run".

I've seen nothing in nine years to indicate that Trip is wrong.

 

[ambush80]

Walt, this is a "hit & run".

I've seen nothing in nine years to indicate that Trip is wrong.

Just to clarify, do you think that Walt has no idea of what is meant by the term God? Do you?

 

[WaltL1]

Walt, this is a "hit & run".

I've seen nothing in nine years to indicate that Trip is wrong.

Maybe you should pay closer attention.
And thanks for your opinion.

 

[hummerpoo]

Just to clarify, do you think that Walt has no idea of what is meant by the term God?

No.

Maybe you should pay closer attention.

————————————

Do you?

Yes.

"hit & run".

This is me doing the run part

Bye Bye.

 

[WaltL1]

Yep! When Adam & Eve ate the fruit he said "they have become like us, knowing right from wrong."
Also he says "I am a jealous god, though shalt not worship other gods."

I have to wonder what the heck an Omni-everything god would be jealous about?
Seems to me its like a multimillionaire being jealous that someone found a $5 bill on the ground.
It paints a picture of God just being petty

 

[1gr8bldr]

I have to wonder what the heck an Omni-everything god would be jealous about?
Seems to me its like a multimillionaire being jealous that someone found a $5 bill on the ground.
It paints a picture of God just being petty

Eve, in the garden, the forbidden fruit, It's the key to the whole bible. It's not that she wanted to look like God, or be able to create stuff, etc. It's that she wanted the glory that goes with being God. Basically rival God rather than worship God. So then, the bible implies that we inherited this trait from her. Man left unchecked will make themselves as a god if given a chance. For example, all those called by God to serve/ shepherd his people did the opposite. They had the people serve themselves, essentially making themselves god on earth. Solomon was the extreme version of it because he lived in a time of peace, his narcissism left unchecked, he acquired more than anyone could imagine. Yet the arrogance extended to the point that he wrote about himself, as if among 1000's of women, that he knew what love was.... or that among 1000's of children he fathered, that he was the picture of what a father should be. Then the next key and foundation of the true unadulterated, simple, distorted gospel...... Jesus, who was , as we are, created in the image of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be had, as Eve did, but humbled himself taking the very nature of a servant, unlike those before him. Being made as a human, he realized man was made to serve, not rival God. He humbled himself, and as the ultimate servant, became obedient to the call of the firstborn in scripture, the cross, Therefore God highly exalted him to the highest place and gave him a name above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and confess that Jesus is Lord/master Philippians 2 6-11.

This is the key to the entire bible that everything builds off of. Everything, without this, nothing is understood. Christians have not a clue, using the NT as a stand alone book. It does not help that even Erhman misinterprets Phillipians 2 . Thinking it's a claim to be divine. Whether you believe it as truth, can you see it, how they misinterpreted it? I hope you will look it over. It is the Key to the scriptures. Of course, no one else in the world will agree with me on this..... But maybe a free thinking Atheist might see it because they can read it without bias.

 

[bullethead]

If those things are perceived as some source of separation then you could create Satan or demons out of them.

They(and a thousand others) are often claimed to be what people want them to be instead of what they really are.

 

[Day trip]

Trip you made a pretty... I'll call it bold.... statement about what I know/don't know.
Any chance you are going to back it up or is this just a garden variety hit and run?

Hi Walt, I’m here. Just busy. I read but havent had time to talk. You don’t have to worry about me insulting you and leaving. I’m ok with mashing it out. I feel like you and my other “pals” in here have enough respect to push each other quite a bit without being offended.

So after all the discussions about God in our conversations it seems that in no time we go back to “which God is that again?”

With your background in Catholicism and the many statements I have made, I would hope that you would start understanding that when I discuss God, I mean THE CREATOR, OUR FATHER, LOVE ITSELF. Even if this is vague (and rightly so) then If you are truely interested then you should ask specific questions or let our conversations paint the picture over time so that even if you don’t agree or see what I see, you can understand the ground I’m speaking from.

Through our conversations you should know that I don’t claim only “the god of the Bible”, “the god of Catholics” or any other limitations we may put on him. I would hope that if I were making references to God, you would be capable of adding the information from the current conversation to the information provided from previous conversations so that we don’t have to keep starting over.

That’s the purpose in my claim. It wasn’t so much s declaration as a challenge to be patient and I will continue to paint.

We can’t think our way into an understanding of God, we must live our way to an understanding of God and if one decides the Bible is not a good source of inspiration then it means that that one needs to do all the ground work himself. As we live and experience pain, suffering, joy and love we should start making sense of these occurrences through holding ourselves responsible. This will lead us to living into an understanding of what is meant by God. A meaning that is universal across all human experiences and religeons with a mature mind.

If we hear someone else’s interpretation of the Bible or God that does not match our own experiences then we must be strong enough to hold the tension of unknown, withholding judgement until we see their perspective and then we can either reject or accept it.

To paraphrase, I have said God is found in participation not explanation, God is found wherever two or three are gathered honestly searching for truth. God is the energy between matter, he is relationship. Why do you think I started the introduction thread? It is so we have a relationship to build on.

So when you ask which God, It feels like you are reacting defensively with a posture that will not see what is being painted. It’s a color by numbers. I’m just painting what is there. I’m not making it up. The difference is that I haven’t rejected God because nobody could explain him in a way that I could think him into existence. I see my life’s experiences and as I read so many others, I see my same experiences through others - the Bible, the Tripitaka, essays, etc.

Between my experiences and the writings of so many others, I believe in Our Heavenly Father. That is the God I’m talking about.

 

[bullethead]

You have no idea what we mean by God.

Anyone can claim or assert anything, you'll be onto something if you can back it up.

 

[bullethead]

Hi Walt, I’m here. Just busy. I read but havent had time to talk. You don’t have to worry about me insulting you and leaving. I’m ok with mashing it out. I feel like you and my other “pals” in here have enough respect to push each other quite a bit without being offended.

So after all the discussions about God in our conversations it seems that in no time we go back to “which God is that again?”

With your background in Catholicism and the many statements I have made, I would hope that you would start understanding that when I discuss God, I mean THE CREATOR, OUR FATHER, LOVE ITSELF. Even if this is vague (and rightly so) then If you are truely interested then you should ask specific questions or let our conversations paint the picture over time so that even if you don’t agree or see what I see, you can understand the ground I’m speaking from.

Through our conversations you should know that I don’t claim only “the god of the Bible”, “the god of Catholics” or any other limitations we may put on him. I would hope that if I were making references to God, you would be capable of adding the information from the current conversation to the information provided from previous conversations so that we don’t have to keep starting over.

That’s the purpose in my claim. It wasn’t so much s declaration as a challenge to be patient and I will continue to paint.

We can’t think our way into an understanding of God, we must live our way to an understanding of God and if one decides the Bible is not a good source of inspiration then it means that that one needs to do all the ground work himself. As we live and experience pain, suffering, joy and love we should start making sense of these occurrences through holding ourselves responsible. This will lead us to living into an understanding of what is meant by God. A meaning that is universal across all human experiences and religeons with a mature mind.

If we hear someone else’s interpretation of the Bible or God that does not match our own experiences then we must be strong enough to hold the tension of unknown, withholding judgement until we see their perspective and then we can either reject or accept it.

To paraphrase, I have said God is found in participation not explanation, God is found wherever two or three are gathered honestly searching for truth. God is the energy between matter, he is relationship. Why do you think I started the introduction thread? It is so we have a relationship to build on.

So when you ask which God, It feels like you are reacting defensively with a posture that will not see what is being painted. It’s a color by numbers. I’m just painting what is there. I’m not making it up. The difference is that I haven’t rejected God because nobody could explain him in a way that I could think him into existence. I see my life’s experiences and as I read so many others, I see my same experiences through others - the Bible, the Tripitaka, essays, etc.

Between my experiences and the writings of so many others, I believe in Our Heavenly Father. That is the God I’m talking about.

We can go on and on pretending to go along with assertions for the sake of a conversation but at some point will anyone step up and back up what they claim and assert with any fact?

We know what is written in thr bible.
We know what god you worship.
We would like something outside of the bible to back it up.

We can have a serious conversation with in depth thought put into who is stronger...Superman oe Mighty Mouse....?
We can assert and claim to make our points.
The whole time we know who we are talking about but until someone wants to step up and take the conversation from hypothetical to real, they will have to use some tangible facts that first prove that either character exists and THEN we can discuss thr nitty gritty.

Believers seem to want to skip the first step and go right to us just taking their word for it.

 

[Israel]

Hades or Cronos?

Wow.

 

[WaltL1]

Hi Walt, I’m here. Just busy. I read but havent had time to talk. You don’t have to worry about me insulting you and leaving. I’m ok with mashing it out. I feel like you and my other “pals” in here have enough respect to push each other quite a bit without being offended.

So after all the discussions about God in our conversations it seems that in no time we go back to “which God is that again?”

With your background in Catholicism and the many statements I have made, I would hope that you would start understanding that when I discuss God, I mean THE CREATOR, OUR FATHER, LOVE ITSELF. Even if this is vague (and rightly so) then If you are truely interested then you should ask specific questions or let our conversations paint the picture over time so that even if you don’t agree or see what I see, you can understand the ground I’m speaking from.

Through our conversations you should know that I don’t claim only “the god of the Bible”, “the god of Catholics” or any other limitations we may put on him. I would hope that if I were making references to God, you would be capable of adding the information from the current conversation to the information provided from previous conversations so that we don’t have to keep starting over.

That’s the purpose in my claim. It wasn’t so much s declaration as a challenge to be patient and I will continue to paint.

We can’t think our way into an understanding of God, we must live our way to an understanding of God and if one decides the Bible is not a good source of inspiration then it means that that one needs to do all the ground work himself. As we live and experience pain, suffering, joy and love we should start making sense of these occurrences through holding ourselves responsible. This will lead us to living into an understanding of what is meant by God. A meaning that is universal across all human experiences and religeons with a mature mind.

If we hear someone else’s interpretation of the Bible or God that does not match our own experiences then we must be strong enough to hold the tension of unknown, withholding judgement until we see their perspective and then we can either reject or accept it.

To paraphrase, I have said God is found in participation not explanation, God is found wherever two or three are gathered honestly searching for truth. God is the energy between matter, he is relationship. Why do you think I started the introduction thread? It is so we have a relationship to build on.

So when you ask which God, It feels like you are reacting defensively with a posture that will not see what is being painted. It’s a color by numbers. I’m just painting what is there. I’m not making it up. The difference is that I haven’t rejected God because nobody could explain him in a way that I could think him into existence. I see my life’s experiences and as I read so many others, I see my same experiences through others - the Bible, the Tripitaka, essays, etc.

Between my experiences and the writings of so many others, I believe in Our Heavenly Father. That is the God I’m talking about.

I think this is actually a pretty simple misunderstanding.

In all seriousness, if we suppose a “God”, don’t we have to first see him through his creation all around us?

When you used a "God" I took it in the generic way due to the a in front of God in parentheses not specifically the Christian God.
You can see that in my response because my point was that not all gods are credited with creation -

Why?
There are "Gods" that are not credited with creating everything "all around us".
What if we were supposing one of them?

 

[NCHillbilly]

Eve, in the garden, the forbidden fruit, It's the key to the whole bible. It's not that she wanted to look like God, or be able to create stuff, etc. It's that she wanted the glory that goes with being God. Basically rival God rather than worship God. So then, the bible implies that we inherited this trait from her. Man left unchecked will make themselves as a god if given a chance. For example, all those called by God to serve/ shepherd his people did the opposite. They had the people serve themselves, essentially making themselves god on earth. Solomon was the extreme version of it because he lived in a time of peace, his narcissism left unchecked, he acquired more than anyone could imagine. Yet the arrogance extended to the point that he wrote about himself, as if among 1000's of women, that he knew what love was.... or that among 1000's of children he fathered, that he was the picture of what a father should be. Then the next key and foundation of the true unadulterated, simple, distorted gospel...... Jesus, who was , as we are, created in the image of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be had, as Eve did, but humbled himself taking the very nature of a servant, unlike those before him. Being made as a human, he realized man was made to serve, not rival God. He humbled himself, and as the ultimate servant, became obedient to the call of the firstborn in scripture, the cross, Therefore God highly exalted him to the highest place and gave him a name above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and confess that Jesus is Lord/master Philippians 2 6-11.

This is the key to the entire bible that everything builds off of. Everything, without this, nothing is understood. Christians have not a clue, using the NT as a stand alone book. It does not help that even Erhman misinterprets Phillipians 2 . Thinking it's a claim to be divine. Whether you believe it as truth, can you see it, how they misinterpreted it? I hope you will look it over. It is the Key to the scriptures. Of course, no one else in the world will agree with me on this..... But maybe a free thinking Atheist might see it because they can read it without bias.

The flaw in that reasoning is that according to the Bible, God created Eve the way she was, gave her the personality and desires that she had; and then he plopped the forbidden fruit tree down in the garden for her to do exactly what he designed her to do with it.

God set her up, and then blames the whole human race for it forever. Not to mention the trouble that verse in Genesis has caused for poor old innocent snakes over the years. A very just and loving and merciful God he is.......

 

[oldfella1962]

Yes. There is one. He has many names. God of this world being one.

"god of this world" being Satan, correct?

 

[Israel]

"god of this world" being Satan, correct?

yes.

 

[Day trip]

Anyone can claim or assert anything, you'll be onto something if you can back it up.

Back it up to who? You? Why? You know there is no God.

 

[Day trip]

I think this is actually a pretty simple misunderstanding.

When you used a "God" I took it in the generic way due to the a in front of God in parentheses not specifically the Christian God.
You can see that in my response because my point was that not all gods are credited with creation -

Oh, I see. When you look at the universe, is anything out of place? Does anything not belong? It fits perfectly. Everything. Even Bullet! This is why a believer such as myself looks as God as one. One mind, one plan. Now if we want to dig deeper than that we can do no better than speculate on whether God is a being, a force, or a group of super gerbils who agreed to the arrangement of the universe. It is unnecessary to go farther back than accepting the One Mind, I consider God as The One regardless of his true form.

Any religeon that professes belief in the order and plan in the universe is worshiping this God. Some call him by different names, some have different ideas based on cultures, traditions and scriptures but if we are going to have a serious conversation then we have to look at how believers think alike and look at the common ground before looking at differences.


So, do you think the universe is orderly and neat or random and chaotic?

 

[Day trip]

Yep! When Adam & Eve ate the fruit he said "they have become like us, knowing right from wrong."
Also he says "I am a jealous god, though shalt not worship other gods."

To me it sounds like God is either schizophrenic OR, maybe the person telling the story meant something else, maybe the idea of the Trinity fits here?

As far as a jealous God, does that match your experiences? Does that make sense with the general picture being portrayed OR is it that the early writers, with limited experience and without the knowledge that is readily available today may have misunderstood their failing to obey truth as jealousy?

If I say a bridge over a deep chasm is there but I cannot see it then fall in, was God jealous or did I try to pass a lie off as truth for my own convienence?