Harmonizing the new testament with the old testament

[jwf2506]

There’s nothing wrong with eating pork.

“Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.” - Rom. 14:3

They are not talking about clean or unclean food in this text

 

[brutally honest]

They are not talking about clean or unclean food in this text

1) That’s an interpretation.

2) They are talking clean and unclean in Acts 10.

 

[jwf2506]

1) That’s an interpretation.

2) They are talking clean and unclean in Acts 10.

If you are referring to Peter's vision go to the page I inserted in my first post then click on Acts 10 this teacher explains this text well , I'm not being a smart aleck I'm being serious and see if it makes sense after you read it

 

[Madman]

This is not new teachings these are the original teachings and if anything goes against the holy scriptures no matter how long they have been taught it is still wrong

Friend I have no intention of an argument, I only leave you with a thought, into whose care were the Holy Scriptures given? Who has interpreted them since they were given, who has taught them and the faith, unbroken for 2000+ years?

Be careful listening to “learned men”, there are many groups that claim to have come from “learned men” yet walk in serious error.

God’s peace.

 

[jwf2506]

Friend I have no intention of an argument, I only leave you with a thought, into whose care were the Holy Scriptures given? Who has interpreted them since they were given, who has taught them and the faith, unbroken for 2000+ years?

Be careful listening to “learned men”, there are many groups that claim to have come from “learned men” yet walk in serious error.

God’s peace.

I appreciate the advice and the not arguing, I don't just listen to learned men but I also study and you are correct there is a lot of learned men ,preachers ,pastors ect. That most definitely walk in error and teach others to do the same. And if someone shows me with scripture and I don't mean a misunderstood 1 liner I mean an actual studied ,dissected scripture that proves what I'm thinking is incorrect I'm not only going to be thankful but I will also repent and ask Yahweh to increase my learning of the scriptures and keep my feet on the straight and narrow. What I have learned is that a lot of Paul's writings are misunderstood and twisted by pastors every Sunday and it is proven with scripture but it takes more than just surface reading you must study it out. that's why I started this thread and put the insert of someone who has studied the scriptures intensely, not to start an argument but maybe someone out there who might be like I was looking and not getting an answer

 

[brutally honest]

I appreciate the advice and the not arguing, I don't just listen to learned men but I also study and you are correct there is a lot of learned men ,preachers ,pastors ect. That most definitely walk in error and teach others to do the same. And if someone shows me with scripture and I don't mean a misunderstood 1 liner I mean an actual studied ,dissected scripture that proves what I'm thinking is incorrect I'm not only going to be thankful but I will also repent and ask Yahweh to increase my learning of the scriptures and keep my feet on the straight and narrow. What I have learned is that a lot of Paul's writings are misunderstood and twisted by pastors every Sunday and it is proven with scripture but it takes more than just surface reading you must study it out. that's why I started this thread and put the insert of someone who has studied the scriptures intensely, not to start an argument but maybe someone out there who might be like I was looking and not getting an answer

Believe what you like, but the ministry you linked to in the OP began in 2000. Juxtapose that against the 2,000 years of church history that Madman refers to above.

 

[jwf2506]

Believe what you like, but the ministry you linked to in the OP began in 2000. Juxtapose that against the 2,000 years of church history that Madman refers to above.

Ok I'm very well aware of how long the scriptures has been established, and I believe that today's churches are so far removed from the truth it is absolutely pathetic just look at what is acceptable and what the standard of a today's Christian vs a 2000 year ago believer is. but I also believe that there is great people that has dedicated themselves to studying the scriptures and bring back the truths of Yahweh's word and I am so thankful that they have taken time from their lives and sacrificed so much for the purpose of the kingdom and I pray Yahweh will richly bless them and their families for their sacrifice. I ask one thing of you instead of just saying you are wrong and I am right to please open your bible and show me what I believe is wrong with book,chapter and verse. And I truly thank you for taking the time to search the scriptures because at the end of the day we all should only want the truth of Yahweh's word so we can apply it to our lives and live according to his will.

 

[brutally honest]

… please open your bible and show me what I believe is wrong with book,chapter and verse.

I have listed several verses from Acts, Romans, and Galatians. Here’s another:

“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” - Rom. 10:4

I’m sure the site in the OP has a response to that, but I’ve looked through that site and found it wanting.

I’m certain of one thing, though: since the time of the apostles, certain Jewish believers have wanted gentile believers to become Jewish believers like themselves. I don’t believe that is the message the NT conveys to gentiles.

 

[brutally honest]

Ok I'm very well aware of how long the scriptures has been established, and I believe that today's churches are so far removed from the truth it is absolutely pathetic just look at what is acceptable and what the standard of a today's Christian vs a 2000 year ago believer is.

I agree that modern churches have many issues and have stated in other threads that early believers would not even recognize many modern churches as churches.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I have listed several verses from Acts, Romans, and Galatians. Here’s another:

“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” - Rom. 10:4

I’m sure the site in the OP has a response to that, but I’ve looked through that site and found it wanting.

I’m certain of one thing, though: since the time of the apostles, certain Jewish believers have wanted gentile believers to become Jewish believers like themselves. I don’t believe that is the message the NT conveys to gentiles.

I'm with you on end of the law thing for sure. I'm not really sure on what exactly Gentiles are suppose to become in relation to the grafting in as explained in Romans 11. Also in relation to the full number of Gentiles has come into that grafting in.

I would think it more that Israel should become more like Gentiles in believing the Law has ended than us become more like Israel in believing that it hasn't.

It seems like Romans 11 says a Remnant was chosen from Israel by grace and the rest were hardened, Until that full number of Gentiles is grafted in. A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. At that point Israel's eyes will be opened, their hardening removed.

And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

Seems a bit hard to remove Gentiles path from that of Israel since we have been grafted in to Israel.

 

[Artfuldodger]

He is the only begotten son of Yahweh and was sent to die for our sins without him we would not have a way to salvation and that is everything

I agree, that is everything. It is finished. Christ is the only way to harmonize the Old with the New.
That ministry on your link wasted a good bit of mind gymnastics for nothing. He could had just answered "Jesus" as the answer.

 

[jwf2506]

I agree, that is everything. It is finished. Christ is the only way to harmonize the Old with the New.
That ministry on your link wasted a good bit of mind gymnastics for nothing. He could had just answered "Jesus" as the answer.

I don't believe it was a waste of any mind gymnastics I believe he explains why the Apostles and Paul as well as others continued to follow the law of Moses long after the Messiah had ascended into heaven with the father.

 

[Madman]

I’m certain of one thing, though: since the time of the apostles, certain Jewish believers have wanted gentile believers to become Jewish believers like themselves. I don’t believe that is the message the NT conveys to gentiles.

We know the purpose of the law, it is to show us sin, Holy Scripture makes it clear we cannot keep the law, if you break one part you are doomed. That being said, the Jerusalem council was to combat exactly what you just said. Some of the Jewish Christian’s were teaching that new Christians had to be circumcised. The Apostles struck that down.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I don't believe it was a waste of any mind gymnastics I believe he explains why the Apostles and Paul as well as others continued to follow the law of Moses long after the Messiah had ascended into heaven with the father.

I've heard some explain it as a dispensation between the one of Law and the one of Grace that ended at ascension, the Pentecost, or 70AD.

 

[jwf2506]

We know the purpose of the law, it is to show us sin, Holy Scripture makes it clear we cannot keep the law, if you break one part you are doomed. That being said, the Jerusalem council was to combat exactly what you just said. Some of the Jewish Christian’s were teaching that new Christians had to be circumcised. The Apostles struck that down.

Its saying IF you are trying to keep the law to OBTAIN SALVATION we know that cannot be done.If we are absolutely not supposed to keep the law why in the world would the Apostles, Paul and many others continue to keep it after the messiah was gone you would think they would have been the first people told not to keep the law. Trust me I understand Paul's writings are hard to understand and I believe that is exactly what Peter is saying in 2nd Peter 3:16. And I know you've read where Yahweh says that David was a man after his own heart now read psalms 119 and look what David thinks about the law of Yahweh. I do not try to keep the law of Moses so as to obtain salvation , what is the definition of sin? It is transgression of the law

 

[Artfuldodger]

Its saying IF you are trying to keep the law to OBTAIN SALVATION we know that cannot be done.If we are absolutely not supposed to keep the law why in the world would the Apostles, Paul and many others continue to keep it after the messiah was gone you would think they would have been the first people told not to keep the law. Trust me I understand Paul's writings are hard to understand and I believe that is exactly what Peter is saying in 2nd Peter 3:16. And I know you've read where Yahweh says that David was a man after his own heart now read psalms 119 and look what David thinks about the law of Yahweh. I do not try to keep the law of Moses so as to obtain salvation , what is the definition of sin? It is transgression of the law

What's your take on Romans 11? It seems like God's whole plan was to show us that we could not keep the Law and thus needed salvation in the form of a Messiah. Thus God using the Jews as a nation to accomplish his salvation going out to all the nations(Gentiles).
In order to accomplish this plan, God chose a Remnant by Grace and hardened the rest to allow Salvation to go to the Gentiles and thus to be grafted in to Israel.

This is in line with God's plan of the Law's purpose.

Also in line with Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

 

[brutally honest]

Its saying IF you are trying to keep the law to OBTAIN SALVATION we know that cannot be done.If we are absolutely not supposed to keep the law why in the world would the Apostles, Paul and many others continue to keep it after the messiah was gone you would think they would have been the first people told not to keep the law.

Can you clarify what you mean by "the law"? Are you talking about the Ten Commandments only? Animal sacrifices? Feast days? The entire OT?

 

[Artfuldodger]

The Law condemns a person for as long as they are under law. For a person who continues to practice the Law today, they are bound to the Law's requirements, which Paul says means they are forever under condemnation. But for the person who places faith in the work of Christ, that person comes out from under the penalty of Law. In this sense, all people (who practice the Law) are under the Law.

Doesn't Paul say in a verse that one can try to keep the Law if he wants to but if he breaks any part of it, he has broken all of it?

 

[Madman]

Its saying IF you are trying to keep the law to OBTAIN SALVATION we know that cannot be done.If we are absolutely not supposed to keep the law why in the world would the Apostles, Paul and many others continue to keep it after the messiah was gone you would think they would have been the first people told not to keep the law. Trust me I understand Paul's writings are hard to understand and I believe that is exactly what Peter is saying in 2nd Peter 3:16. And I know you've read where Yahweh says that David was a man after his own heart now read psalms 119 and look what David thinks about the law of Yahweh. I do not try to keep the law of Moses so as to obtain salvation , what is the definition of sin? It is transgression of the law

They did not keep the dietary laws, remember Peter’s dream “kill and eat”.

Paul chastised Peter for his dietary hypocrisy.

 

[jwf2506]

Can you clarify what you mean by "the law"? Are you talking about the Ten Commandments only? Animal sacrifices? Feast days? The entire OT?

The whole law of Moses