Has any Christian ever had thoughts that they should be punished for their sins?

[gordon 2]

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

I am supposing that Christians who's walks and works waver from belief to unbelief, that we would have a natural intuition that we are underserving. That is in this case and in all honestly for us regards God's Grace we are underserving. I am supposing that this conditioning stems from the fact of another belief where to believe fully is impossible. We who are weak in the faith we might say to point this out: "We cannot be perfect, nevertheless God have mercy on us."

Or simply since we are wild rooted in unbelief and have been grafted into belief we are undeserving.

But now adopted on the tree, for which God's promises are made, the saints that cannot waver, that will not be broken off for lack of faith, for them there will always be belief. They cleave to God's intimate will for all first in all things and so there is no need of mercy due unbelief, they are deserving of all other graces.

" For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." Where there is no need of repentance there is no need of mercy. There is no need of this unmerited favor. What remains is compassion to which all are deserving.

"And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them."

Perhaps God's respect comes from compassion that a whole language or a whole way of saying is missing between Him and them, a common culture is missing, yet it is still sufficient that the Hebrews, some that believed and some that did not, could moan and pray and God heard and answered their prayers non the less. Of God's compassion all were deserving... They were his after all.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Shouldn't I have to go somewhere until I'm worthy?

Just curious how you could ever be deemed worthy. If you aren’t (through Christ) now what else can either you or Christ do more?

 

[Madman]

Whichever one thinks himself clever enough to say "it doesn't matter"...and then immediately sees/hears:
"The answer may be right, but you aren't yet with all your brothers".

I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

And I appreciate that in order for you to pose the question (to me) something you did not resist was at work to even read that offering.

On any one day I may be found out as "the man who squanders" and on another "the man who is angered by show of grace to another". On any one day wonderfully surprised by what he is given, that he did not expect, and on any one day as surprised by what he is told that he did not believe.

But because of the kindness shown through you, I see another man.

Bless you for it.

Personally, for me, it depends on the time of day. I try / want to be the prodigal buuuuuuuutttttttttt, I wax and wane.

It is most difficult some days to view the man and say "but by the grace of God go I", and then it is quickly brought to my attention by the Holy Spirit, or my wife, I do go that way ocassionally, even being one who has God's grace poured upon him daily, hourly, by the minute.

I still want more than another, I feel I have worked in the field longer, even in the heat of the day. Do I not deserve more?

No I deserve only what he offered and no more.

Then I weep, and thank him for his grace, his mercy, his love.

Thanks folks. This has turned into more for me than I first though it would.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Just curious how you could ever be deemed worthy. If you aren’t (through Christ) now what else can either you or Christ do more?

Let's just say I die with some attached sin such as homosexual sex or drunkardness. Maybe I haven't helped enough sick or poor people or haven't forgiven my enemies.
It doesn't seem like I'd be worthy to be in the presence of God in some circumstances.

 

[formula1]

One that loses his life for my sake finds it! (Jesus)

 

[Artfuldodger]

One that loses his life for my sake finds it! (Jesus)

If I die without loosing my self denial, then perhaps I could add that to the reasons in post 64 to go work on that.

 

[formula1]

If I die without loosing my self denial, then perhaps I could add that to the reasons in post 64 to go work on that.

If Christ is your life, any ‘if’ has been destroyed forever. The ‘work’ as your thoughts have determined is to live believing that victory. There is not one whose flesh completely disappears at conversion, but you have in you the power to overcome it and in fact, Christ has declared you free of it. That war in your mind never seems to end on the earth but this truth still remains:

“Whom the Son sets free is free indeed!”

You don’t keep fighting that battle if your heart knows He has already won.

 

[Spotlite]

If Christ is your life, any ‘if’ has been destroyed forever. The ‘work’ as your thoughts have determined is to live believing that victory. There is not one whose flesh completely disappears at conversion, but you have in you the power to overcome it and in fact, Christ has declared you free of it. That war in your mind never seems to end on the earth but this truth still remains:

“Whom the Son sets free is free indeed!”

You don’t keep fighting that battle if your heart knows He has already won.

If I’m reading Art correctly, he’s saying once he’s been set free from the lust of the flesh………and returns to the lust of the flesh again…..

This brings up questions.
What is happening:

1. Is God just covering him?

2.Is the lust of the fiesh no longer contrary to the spirit?

3. If you’re still indulging in your mud what did you turn away from?

4. Scripture teaches about restoration, what is restoration if nothing needs restoring?

This sounds like God is now ok with lust of the flesh as long as a person is “saved”.

 

[Artfuldodger]

If I’m reading Art correctly, he’s saying once he’s been set free from the lust of the flesh………and returns to the lust of the flesh again…..

This brings up questions.
What is happening:

1. Is God just covering him?

2.Is the lust of the fiesh no longer contrary to the spirit?

3. If you’re still indulging in your mud what did you turn away from?

4. Scripture teaches about restoration, what is restoration if nothing needs restoring?

This sounds like God is now ok with lust of the flesh as long as a person is “saved”.

Which sorta returns to the OP. What if I died physically and haven't completely done all that yet. Does it all get met at death or do I go to some holding place to finish my journey?
Actually my OP was that I sometimes feel like I should wait, whether that place exists or not.

 

[Spotlite]

Which sorta returns to the OP. What if I died physically and haven't completely done all that yet. Does it all get met at death or do I go to some holding place to finish my journey?
Actually my OP was that I sometimes feel like I should wait, whether that place exists or not.

From everything I understand if you’re doing things that you know are wrong it’s as simple as just talking to God about it in repentance and then staying away from it. I’m sure we all do things we’re not fully aware of but scripture talks about willful sin, too. I take that as if you’re aware, God is dealing with you about it.

As far as not feeding enough hungry people - I don’t know a magic number. I’m not searching for hungry people, but I don’t turn anyone hungry away, if that helps.

 

[Artfuldodger]

From everything I understand if you’re doing things that you know are wrong it’s as simple as just talking to God about it in repentance and then staying away from it. I’m sure we all do things we’re not fully aware of but scripture talks about willful sin, too. I take that as if you’re aware, God is dealing with you about it.

As far as not feeding enough hungry people - I don’t know a magic number. I’m not searching for hungry people, but I don’t turn anyone hungry away, if that helps.

But even if I do repent and do my best, there are still sins that we each face daily. These are all different for each of us. For one man, he may die a drunkard, having never overcome. Another may die a homosexual. For me it might be lust, hate, anger, jealousy, boastfulness, and pride.
No matter if we have the Holy Spirit living in us and repent daily, I don't think we can do more than what we can do. I think for most Christians, they don't really care. Most Christians just aren't really into it enough to even wonder or think about it too much. And for them I'm jealous, lol which is a sin.

So maybe a place where like God could send them and be like, You ain't quite lived up to living the Christian live that Jesus talked about. You were filled with lust, pride, hate. You hardly ever gave love in the form of forgiveness and helping others. You never fed Jesus or clothed Jesus or visited him in prison.

 

[brutally honest]

So maybe a place where like God could send them and be like, You ain't quite lived up to living the Christian live that Jesus talked about.

New Jersey, maybe?

 

[Artfuldodger]

New Jersey, maybe?

I'm now thinking my OP should have said to be reformed, not punished.
Your suggestion would be against the Geneva Code for punishment, lol.

 

[gordon 2]

If I’m reading Art correctly, he’s saying once he’s been set free from the lust of the flesh………and returns to the lust of the flesh again…..

This brings up questions.
What is happening:

1. Is God just covering him?

2.Is the lust of the fiesh no longer contrary to the spirit?

3. If you’re still indulging in your mud what did you turn away from?

4. Scripture teaches about restoration, what is restoration if nothing needs restoring?

This sounds like God is now ok with lust of the flesh as long as a person is “saved”.

I think that we focus on what sin does to us... without really thinking what sin is.

"Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you.

16 When ye have transgressed the covenant of the Lord your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you."

When it comes to sin, the more it changes the more it is the same.

 

[Spotlite]

But even if I do repent and do my best, there are still sins that we each face daily. These are all different for each of us. For one man, he may die a drunkard, having never overcome. Another may die a homosexual. For me it might be lust, hate, anger, jealousy, boastfulness, and pride.
No matter if we have the Holy Spirit living in us and repent daily, I don't think we can do more than what we can do. I think for most Christians, they don't really care. Most Christians just aren't really into it enough to even wonder or think about it too much. And for them I'm jealous, lol which is a sin.

So maybe a place where like God could send them and be like, You ain't quite lived up to living the Christian live that Jesus talked about. You were filled with lust, pride, hate. You hardly ever gave love in the form of forgiveness and helping others. You never fed Jesus or clothed Jesus or visited him in prison.

For me this is an area where “we work out our own salvation with fear” meaning keeping a close relationship with God and not intentionally “picking up the bottle” just because mercy / grace is there. We know the very second we do something that just isn’t right - right then is time to deal with it.

God brings these sins out of people. Some take time. But it’s His work in them. They just don’t need the attitude that “I’ve got it made I can do what I wavt”.

 

[Spotlite]

I think that we focus on what sin does to us... without really thinking what sin is.

"Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you.

16 When ye have transgressed the covenant of the Lord your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you."

When it comes to sin, the more it changes the more it is the same.

Agreed!!

 

[formula1]

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.

 

[Madman]

There seems to be an appropriateness to the Collect for this Sunday and the readings.



O LORD, we beseech thee favourably to hear the prayers of thy people; that we, who are justly punished for our offences, may be mercifully delivered by thy goodness, for the glory of thy Name; through Jesus Christ our Saviour, who liveth and reigneth with thee and the Holy Ghost ever, one God, world without end. Amen.



The Epistle. 1 Corinthians ix. 24.


KNOW ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: but I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection; lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.



The Gospel. St. Matthew xx. 1.


THE kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the market-place, and said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

 

[Madman]

But even if I do repent and do my best, there are still sins that we each face daily. These are all different for each of us. For one man, he may die a drunkard, having never overcome. Another may die a homosexual. For me it might be lust, hate, anger, jealousy, boastfulness, and pride.
No matter if we have the Holy Spirit living in us and repent daily, I don't think we can do more than what we can do. I think for most Christians, they don't really care. Most Christians just aren't really into it enough to even wonder or think about it too much. And for them I'm jealous, lol which is a sin.

So maybe a place where like God could send them and be like, You ain't quite lived up to living the Christian live that Jesus talked about. You were filled with lust, pride, hate. You hardly ever gave love in the form of forgiveness and helping others. You never fed Jesus or clothed Jesus or visited him in prison.

Consider what Holy Scripture describes, called purgatory by some.

I Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

 

[gordon 2]

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.

It takes a child's faith and a strong faith to walk in this love. Also it is the first commandment of the New Covenant. Some say kumbaya to it disparagingly. Or that love is at best a hope to salve despair.

Christ calls us and then helps us to walk in it as life itself, as not a momentary thing, or a fleeting thing but a life long thing. " Come walk in this life and come to me. I will help you. Come to me and live."

Love does a remarkable thing to sin. It does not turn to wrath to rid it. It turns inwards to Christ and strives to walk as Christ walked and to die as Christ died.