Questions about our Native Americans

[Gary Mercer]

In an earnest effort to get away from the Trivia about "THE WAR," I would like to ask our history buffs to tell me where did the Seminoles come from?
I have heard they were an indigenous tribe in FL, and I have heard they were a Group made up of many tribes from GA and AL, even SC.
Does anyone really have a history of that tribe?
Just curious.

 

[Clifton Hicks]

They were sort of a confederacy of refugees and remnants of other tribes from all over the southeast. Indians all along the east coast during the 1700s were being wiped out by disease and, here in the South, there was also a huge Indian slave trade which totally devastated native society.

People who wanted to escape the slavers (mainly in the Carolinas) and the constant wars and epidemic diseases (which were everywhere) were often pushed down into Florida. In those days, the Gulf Coast and especially Florida were sort of a waste land. The original native inhabitants (Timucua, Caloosa and others) had been wiped out earlier during Spanish colonization attempts. By the early 1700s the Spanish were losing control and, since the English/Americans hadn't made it that far south yet, Florida was very attractive for Indian refugees, runaway black slaves and white criminals.

Thousands of these people wound up in Florida during the 18th century where many of them banded together in vilages and towns and became what we think of today as Seminoles.

The Seminole Indians were mostly Creek (Muskogee), Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw--those types of folks. And there were plenty of black and even a few white Seminoles.

The word "Seminole" itself was, I think, derived from a Spanish word that meant runaway or fugitive or something like that.

 

[Farmer Black]

After spending most of my life exploring the swamps and glades of Florida I have to give TONs of respect to a culture that managed to carve a livelihood out of that very tough environment.

 

[oops1]

Good post.. Clifton

 

[RBM]

Here where I live we have Creek (Muskogee) on the reservation out at Brighton. There are also Miccosukee and Calusa. There are Miccosukee around Ft. Lauderdale and Calusa around the Glades side of Miami in South FL. The Calusa are famous for killing Conquistador Juan Ponce De Leon with a Manchineel poison arrow. There are Miccosukee in the Tampa Bay area. The Seminoles have a number of casinos on their reservations (usually one casino on each reservation) and there is a casino here on the reservation at Brighton. They (the tribe) also make money from the Seminole tribe name especially the FSU Seminoles. They do not pay taxes and in fact are paid by the Federal Government.

Here the local Seminole tribe of Creek provide Native Indian skills to the local BSA. I do respect their skills.

The Calusa are of the original tribes of FL. The Muskogee Creek and Miccosukee are transplant tribes from Oklahoma. They all are what is known as the Seminole tribe. Andrew Jackson put the Native Indians down in what has come to be known as the First Seminole Indian War. Jackson was known as the burner of villages. He defeated and ran the Oklahoma tribes down into the Spanish Province of FL. Jackson's action was directly related to Spanish and British intervention (incitement of the Seminoles) and resulted in FL being ceded to the US by Spain. The Second Seminole Indian War was the US Government attempted to force the Seminoles to leave FL. They were initially placed on one large reservation in Southwest FL. As American colonists began to populate FL, clashes with the Native Indians was inevitable (Third Seminole Indian War). The Native Indians killed colonists and burned homes. Eventually all the Native Indians were placed into reservations as a result of the wars. I believe there are six (Federal) reservations in FL.

 

[crackerdave]

I am an honorary Seminole.

Guess I'd be in the cracker tribe?

 

[Milkman]

In an earnest effort to get away from the Trivia about "THE WAR," I would like to ask our history buffs to tell me where did the Seminoles come from?
I have heard they were an indigenous tribe in FL, and I have heard they were a Group made up of many tribes from GA and AL, even SC.
Does anyone really have a history of that tribe?
Just curious.

To be honest Gary the Native Americans is a different line of study from the WBTS. Some historians will pursue both lines of study but not many IMO. Most tend to specialize.

 

[Gary Mercer]

How about Fayette County. This was McIntosh Country, and I was told that at one time the county was very large, and was sometimes referred to as "The Indian Lands?"

 

[Gary Mercer]

Ttt

 

[westcobbdog]

How about Fayette County. This was McIntosh Country, and I was told that at one time the county was very large, and was sometimes referred to as "The Indian Lands?"

I would like to see a map, but I am thinking you were in Creek Indian Country, with the Cherokee's more n metro Atl. and N Ga Mtns into North Carolina.

 

[Gary Mercer]

We are in Chief McIntosh country. I understand that the settlement was "Shakerag," which is right outside Peachtree City.
This area must be rich in history, but you don't hear about it.
Does anyone have any sources?

 

[Milkman]

Gary,

I would suggest that you go to one of the many discussion forums about Native Americans. There is sure to be someone there with information on the area you mentioned.

Here is a link to a bing search that yielded several forums.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=native...22&sp=1&cvid=7dab536eec3348808d5027376d4859f0

 

[trad bow]

Ga College Library in Milledgeville use to have maps that showed all the Native American main trails from Augusta heading east. These maps also showed the progression of the state lines from the 1700's to the removal of the Native Americans. These maps also showed the N. A. settlements It has been close to thirty years since I have seen them but do remember that highway16 was built on one of the main trails across the state.

 

[Milkman]

Ga College Library in Milledgeville use to have maps that showed all the Native American main trails from Augusta heading east. These maps also showed the progression of the state lines from the 1700's to the removal of the Native Americans. These maps also showed the N. A. settlements It has been close to thirty years since I have seen them but do remember that highway16 was built on one of the main trails across the state.

So that means Rock Hawk was along the trail where Ga 16 is now. Did the same trail go near Rock Eagle? I think I remember reading that the 7 Islands Road in Morgan county was a trail too.

 

[trad bow]

The trail split as it crossed the Oconee river with one running northwest And the other running west (Highway 16) splitting again before the Ocmulgee River headed toward the mounds at Macon. Those were the main trails I can remember as that was relevant to the area I have grown up in. There was a ton of activity between Seven Islands road and the Rock Eagle area. I know of several village sites that were excavated and studied by archeologist in that area. The main village was shown to be where Little River emptied into the Oconee River at the Putnam and Baldwin county line. It is probably under Lake Sinclair now. I do not remember the upper trails as I just focused on my area. My sister was a student at that time and carried me to the library to see the maps.

 

[phocus]

Gary, You might know about the McIntosh reserve, but here is a wiki link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McIntosh_Reserve

I just made my first post, YAY

 

[westcobbdog]

We are in Chief McIntosh country. I understand that the settlement was "Shakerag," which is right outside Peachtree City.
This area must be rich in history, but you don't hear about it.
Does anyone have any sources?

UGA Hargett library maps is an area to check out, too.

Wonder if the big Creek / Cherokee battle up on Blood Mtn was witnessed by McIntosh or his descendants? Don't know when battle took place.

 

[Gary Mercer]

Looks like it is located in Whitesburg, right on the Hooch.
For an old guy on the South Side it looks like a nice outing.
Great Pics on the web. Seems like the old place is a restored plantation owned by McIntosh.

 

[westcobbdog]

I am sure Macintosh was a great man but signing a treaty ceding so much land bought about the cry for the death sentence he was given. Especially when he carved out his own plantation to keep for himself.

 

[redneck_billcollector]

We are in Chief McIntosh country. I understand that the settlement was "Shakerag," which is right outside Peachtree City.
This area must be rich in history, but you don't hear about it.
Does anyone have any sources?

I am assuming you are asking about William McIntosh, he was born in Coweta (while many say on the Chattahoochee, I imagine it was before it moved to that location and was on the Ocmulgee River) . He ending up leading the Lower Towns and was an ally to the US in the "first" Creek War or what many call the "Red Sticks" war which was a part of the War of 1812. In it he fought against the "Red Sticks" which were made up of natives from the Upper Creek Towns in Alabama. He also was promoted to Brig. Gen. during the first Seminole War and actually lead the troops made up of lower creeks and south GA. militia men during that particular war. It could be argued that the troops under his command fought most of the battles during that war and burned many of the "Seminole" towns that were around present day Tallahassee and east of there. Those towns were largely Muscogee refugees from Red Stick towns in Alabama that had fled there after the creek civil war, which is what the first creek war was as much as anything.

The Seminoles are made up from a mixture of Miccosukee which migrated to Florida shortly after the Revolution from the Lower Flint River Valley and other locations in South GA and Central GA due to them siding with the British largely. (The fighting in GA with "loyalist" lower and upper creeks kept on and off until 1790, leading many of the Miccosukee moving to Florida and under Spanish protection) There was also a large influx of Muscogee during the Creek Civil War or the First Creek War which pretty much ended after Jackson's victory at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend in Alabama. Throw in some of the Calusas and Apalachee that were still in Florida along with run away slaves that were eventually freed by their indian masters. What we call the Seminole along with all what we call Creeks kept African slaves. They just pretty much were more liberal with the way they were kept and it was easy for a slave to gain his freedom with the natives. You also have many natives from the lower towns that sided with the British that ended up in Florida during the Revolution or shortly there after. I have heard a number of explanations for the name Seminole, my favorite is the it is an English version of Cimarron which could mean either run away or wild one. I tend to believe it meant wild one simply because the word was in use before Florida became a destination for run away slaves and the Spanish referred to the natives as that. The natives they called that were the ones who had not converted to Christianity.

The Chief that gave the reason for starting the First Seminole War was born around what is present day Albany, his name was Neamathia or Fat Warrior, shortly after the end of the Creek Civil war according to some historians (and others after the end of the fighting with the lower creeks after the Revolution) he moved his town Fowltown from the Albany area to around present day Bainbridge. His resistance to the building of Fort Scott on the lower Flint River led to the battle of fowltown swamp, the first battle of the war. I can not find reference to him in Benjamin Hawkin's survey published by the D.A.R. Savannah chapter in the early mid-1800s being in the Albany area, the Bainbridge area was in the grey area and more than likely being in Florida so the lower creek or Miccosukee towns in that area were not in his survey so I tend to think it was after the Treaty of New York City in 1790 that ended the fighting with the Creeks in central and south GA shortly after the revolution. (It was the first Treaty ever ratified by the Senate and it ceded much of middle GA and parts of South GA. to the US from the Lower Creeks and led to the Chattahoochee Valley becoming the heartland of the Lower Creeks). Fat Warrior went on to become a major influence amongst the Seminoles in Florida and his objection to the removal act, though an old man at the time, influenced a number of Seminoles to include Osceola (who was born in an upper creek town in Alabama) leading to the 2d Seminole War. Many of the Seminole leaders during this war had been born in either GA or ALA or were the sons of those from GA and the Miccosukee migration during and after the Revolution.

After the destruction and abandonment of a lot of the Upper Creek towns during the Creek Civil War/Red Sticks War / First Creek War (also their mass exodus to Florida) it was relatively quiet in GA except along the frontier with Florida. McIntosh got murdered for the signing of the Treaty of Indian Springs and many of the Lower Creeks fought against removal in the early 1830s, this led to the second Creek War, which was pretty much part and parcel of the 2d Seminole war. The war in GA was fought primarily in what is now Stewart, Clay, Randolph, Baker, Dougherty, (Old Pretoria Massacre), Terrell and Calhoun Counties in SOWEGA and around the Okefenokee Swamp with one of the last battles being near Valdosta.

There are many good references to the movements of the natives from GA to FLA. Benjamin Hawkins' survey of the Creek Confederation in GA published by the Savannah Chapter of the DAR shortly after his death is good, down to the number of slaves, cows, pigs and fowl owned, the acres farmed, the crops grown, the types of houses along with the horses and whether they used white tools, such as looms and iron plows. William Bartram's various works mention the indian towns in Florida he came across along with the languages they spoke. The US War Department letters all available for review online also shed a good bit of light on the towns in Florida and South GA. The GA and FLA historical societies also have a number of good books on these subjects that were written shortly after the events.