So all this time we weren't even talking about a local assembly?
Isn't that the way it's used in that text?( ekklhsia)
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So all this time we weren't even talking about a local assembly?
Isn't that the way it's used in that text?( ekklhsia)
centerpin fan
Senior Member
Of course we were talking about a local assembly. I was just answering your question in post 198.
So you take that to mean every person that joins a local assembly Christian Church has eternal salvation?
And the one's who don't? What about them?
centerpin fan
Senior Member
No, not at all.
I started this thread to see if people thought repentance was necessary for salvation. The guy in the OP has not repented and has no intention of doing so. Vectorman has already said that didn't matter, and the guy could still be saved. Do you agree with that?
God doesn't need us to DO anything in order to save us. Our salvation was determined before creation.
Having said that, BECAUSE of our salvation, He calls us out of our darkness and deadness unto repentance.
So, like I already said, repentance is the result of, not the cause of salvation.
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
centerpin fan
Senior Member
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
But do you agree that salvation was determined before creation?
centerpin fan
Senior Member
I'm a free will kind of guy, if that's where you're going.
So, as a free willer, how would you interpret 2 Tim.1:9-10 ?
centerpin fan
Senior Member
Differently than you.
Care to elaborate?
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Ephesians 2:8-10
For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.
Does verse 10 tell us we repent as a result of God's workmanship? Let's say one receives salvation by grace. Does God follow with his workmanship and exactly what is that workmanship if not repentance?
So instead of saying "you must repent" for salvation, should we say "you will repent" because of God's workmanship?
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
If salvation is contingent with my self ability to repent from sin, why didn't I just repent from sin without the death of Jesus?
If salvation is contingent with repentance from sin as a result of God's workmanship,why didn't God just make me stop sinning and not send his Son to die for my sins?
Regardless of how one looks at it, if my salvation is contingent on my repentance from sin, why did I need Jesus?
If salvation is contingent on repentance from sin, why is this any different from the Old Covenant?
What was the point of the death of Christ, when all that was really needed was for me to quit sinning?
If salvation is contingent with repentance from sin as a result of God's workmanship,why didn't God just make me stop sinning and not send his Son to die for my sins?
Regardless of how one looks at it, if my salvation is contingent on my repentance from sin, why did I need Jesus?
If salvation is contingent on repentance from sin, why is this any different from the Old Covenant?
What was the point of the death of Christ, when all that was really needed was for me to quit sinning?
centerpin fan
Senior Member
I just think Calvin (and Augustine before him) read too much into that verse. The gospel of grace is freely given, but God requires a response from us.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
And you believe that response is more than "Yes, I believe Jesus died for my inability to stop sinning. I've tried to live a righteous life of no sin and I can't. I now want to change my mind(repent) from thinking that I can stop sinning and now believe that Jesus died for my inability. I truly believe that Jesus has accepted my sins and has wiped my slate clean. I no longer have that yoke or burden on my shoulders."
centerpin fan
Senior Member
That's not what the OT prophets, John the Baptist, Jesus, and the apostles said.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
The story of Zacchaeus is a good example of what I'm talking about.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Interesting that Jesus called him by name.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Luke 19:8
And Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor. And if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I restore it fourfold.”
Where is the lesson on repentance? He's already doing what some interpretations use as a future repentance?
And Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor. And if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I restore it fourfold.”
Where is the lesson on repentance? He's already doing what some interpretations use as a future repentance?
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