A guy walks into your church ...

[Artfuldodger]

Are we instructed/commanded to "conclude"?
Are we instructed relative to the case in question?

Romans 2:1-3
You therefore have no excuse, you who pass judgment on another. For on whatever grounds you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2And we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, O man, pass judgment on others, yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

Leave the tares in the wheat.

I would say we are not instructed to "conclude."

Relative to the case in question, I would say we are saved by grace and not of works. If it happens any other way, none of us are saved.

 

[welderguy]

Romans 2:1-3
You therefore have no excuse, you who pass judgment on another. For on whatever grounds you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2And we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, O man, pass judgment on others, yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

Leave the tares in the wheat.

I would say we are not instructed to "conclude."

Relative to the case in question, I would say we are saved by grace and not of works. If it happens any other way, none of us are saved.

Paul made judgement concerning one who was in the church.

1 Corinthians 5:3
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,


As stewards in the church, we must make proper judgements to preserve the integrity and sanctity of it, and to lovingly discipline those who need it. (keyword-need)

 

[Artfuldodger]

So now we are back to the OP. "I gay couple walks into a Church."

Do they get discipline or kicked out? Must they repent? Within who's hands lies their salvation?
Is salvation some type of a "Catch-22?"

 

[hummerpoo]

Romans 2:1-3
You therefore have no excuse, you who pass judgment on another. For on whatever grounds you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2And we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, O man, pass judgment on others, yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

Leave the tares in the wheat.

I would say we are not instructed to "conclude."

I thought to address a lack of scripture, but you are correct; I had forgotten that Rm. 2:1-16 is telling all believers at Rome, and thereby revealing the precept, that when they observe those who appear not to have gotten the message (Rm. 1) they must not apply to others those instructions found elsewhere for self-evaluation (and in some cases for discerning of prophets). To do so would assume an awareness of God's eternal plan which has not been revealed, leaving them, or us, with "no excuse".

Relative to the case in question, I would say we are saved by grace and not of works. If it happens any other way, none of us are saved.

Agreed.

Welder has identified the passage I was thinking of in asking the second question. 1 Cor. 5 and the follow up in 2 Cor. 2 Paul addresses judgment of a type that, unlike individual salvation, is required of God's people both in the NT and extensively in the revelation through Moses; which commandments insure that His declared purpose for His People will be fulfilled (that being that His holiness will be known).

Paul made judgement concerning one who was in the church.

1 Corinthians 5:3
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,


As stewards in the church, we must make proper judgements to preserve the integrity and sanctity of it, and to lovingly discipline those who need it. (keyword-need)

 

[hummerpoo]

So now we are back to the OP. "I gay couple walks into a Church."

Do they get discipline or kicked out? Must they repent? Within who's hands lies their salvation?
Is salvation some type of a "Catch-22?"

I don't think your questions address the OP.

 

[Artfuldodger]

It didn't but I don't see anyone with an answer yet. Other than repentance of sin is a result of salvation, not the cause of salvation.
That answer is good enough for me. If God can't save me by grace then I can't save myself by repentance.

 

[welderguy]

It didn't but I don't see anyone with an answer yet. Other than repentance of sin is a result of salvation, not the cause of salvation.

Basically, all I'm saying is why take them in if you are going to have to turn them right back out because of their refusal to stop their grossly lascivious lifestyle?

Makes no sense.

If the OP had left out the "unrepentance" detail, my answer most likely would have been different.

 

[hummerpoo]

Do I understand correctly, you are concerned that no one has answered a question that has not been asked?
Or is it that you haven't gotten the answers that you want when you ask a series of questions?
I'm lost.

 

[centerpin fan]

Basically, all I'm saying is why take them in ...

Because they believe the exact same thing about Jesus that you do.

... because of their refusal to stop their grossly lascivious lifestyle?

Is it a sinful lifestyle?

 

[Artfuldodger]

b) “As a sinner saved by grace, I welcome you. For the sake of your soul, though, I must quote the Apostle Peter in Acts 3: ‘Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.’ ”

Maybe this repentance is a change of mind and not a repentance of sin.

The OP must be a hard question considering the lack of responses. Maybe someone could sum up how they feel about it again as I'm still a bit confused by some of the answers.

If they profess to having salvation, do we accept them in or turn them away? Considering they do not want to repent? Would it make any difference if they expressed a desire to change but a weakness too strong to allow them to change?

 

[welderguy]

Because they believe the exact same thing about Jesus that you do.

"the devils also believe and tremble"

Is it a sinful lifestyle?

Definitely

 

[hummerpoo]

The OP must be a hard question considering the lack of responses.

The only part that is questionable in my mind relates to:
1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—
1Co 5:10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

Paul is talking about one who is a recognized member of the congregation; one who the congregation is apparently quite pleased to call a member (1Co 5:2) "And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you."

The OP deals with one who apparently was unknown before he walked in off the street and introduced himself for membership.

To me that makes a difference. Not at all on the question of membership, that is made impossible by the prospective members declarations; but as to the question of interaction with the individual:

1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
1Co 5:13 God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

Interaction with the individual in the OP, beyond the question of membership, it seems to me should be guided as though they were (1Co 5:10) "...the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.", which would mean that, as I implied in an earlier post, that they should be treated as any other none believer — without making any denial of their profession of faith and brotherhood (1 Pet. 3:15)

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Alright CPF. You've heard ours. What's your thoughts?

 

[centerpin fan]

Alright CPF. You've heard ours. What's your thoughts?

I would go with "b" or one of the excellent "c's" we've had.

 

[centerpin fan]

"the devils also believe and tremble"

Definitely

I'm trying to find a consistent logic in your position, but I can't. (Not saying it's not there. Just saying I can't find it.)

From what I can tell from reading your posts:

1) Repentance is completely unnecessary for salvation.

2) Believing exactly as you do about Jesus does not mean you're a Christian.

Feel free to correct me and/or flesh that out.

 

[welderguy]

I'm trying to find a consistent logic in your position, but I can't. (Not saying it's not there. Just saying I can't find it.)

From what I can tell from reading your posts:

1) Repentance is completely unnecessary for salvation.

2) Believing exactly as you do about Jesus does not mean you're a Christian.

Feel free to correct me and/or flesh that out.

To me, it seems you are the one not being consistent.
The OP is regarding repentance to become a member of the church.
Now you are making it about repentance unto salvation.

They are not synonymous, although it seems you are equating them as such.

Many people join churches that are not saved(wolves in sheep clothing).

 

[centerpin fan]

The OP is regarding repentance to become a member of the church.
Now you are making it about repentance unto salvation.

They are not synonymous, although it seems you are equating them as such.

I've always understood them to be synonymous, and that's what I meant in the OP. Sorry if that was not clear.

 

[welderguy]

I've always understood them to be synonymous, and that's what I meant in the OP. Sorry if that was not clear.

So you believe every person who ever joined a Christian church is saved?

 

[Israel]

No fault in the OP as being representational...it probably could be.
But one of the matters at hand is obviously:
"I struggled with reconciling my homosexuality with Christianity for years. After reading several gay Christian websites, though, I now realize that God made me gay, and homosexuality is not a sin.”

Appears a fair admission that this person's convincing (convictions) didn't come from the Spirit. One more or less admits such in that conversation.
That remains a greater issue...not only to that individual...but to what is of all called the "church".

 

[centerpin fan]

So you believe every person who ever joined a Christian church is saved?

Not "a" church -- "the" church.

"And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." -- Acts 2:47