Are Catholics Born Again?

[Israel]

Catholics may be born again, just as baptists, methodists, pentecostals, hindus, muslims, and zoroastrians. Does "being catholic" make one born again? Of course not...but it makes one a good candidate.

 

[PJason]

Catholics may be born again, just as baptists, methodists, pentecostals, hindus, muslims, and zoroastrians. Does "being catholic" make one born again? Of course not...but it makes one a good candidate.

Good post

 

[dawg2]

I do thank you men very much for your evil comments about me. For you to persecute me and call me names, b/c I love Jesus and follow the Word of God, means that I must be doing something right in the eyes of God... There is nothing you can say or do to me that will keep me from loving all of you and praying that we will all meet together and live with the Lord forever in a place much better than this world....

John 15:20
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you...

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you...

Matthew 5:10
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven...

1 Corinthians 4:12
And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:

2 Corinthians 4:9
Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

1 Thessalonians 2:15
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men...

You are still a troll.

 

[dawg2]

.... You guys misunderstand me and assume i am spewing "hatred"... I may be spewing hatred for a group of men (papacy) who has done more harm to this world than any other group men ever....

Bull

Isn't it funny how everybody looks at Hitler as a maniac murderer b/c he killed 6 million people. Well the papacy has killed 100 million people over 1500 years... So how come the popes are not maniacs? You don't condemn them b/c you are a papist...

Protestants never killed anyone


True Christians have always been persecuted and always will. You guys hate me b/c I tell you the Truth and it goes against your beliefs....

Praranoia

So all of you are condemning me before you have researched it for yourself. I have reseached the catholic catechism, history books and the Bible.

Pretty brash assumption you make there, considering you know nothing of me, nor what I have or have not researched

I am no expert at any of this

Now THERE is a blinding flash of the obvious.

Yall are angry because your views do not match the Bible and I am exposing them.

Paranoia again....

Another verse:
Gal 4:16
16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Paul was telling them the truth and they hated him. Thats fine, you can hate me too. I dont mind and I expect to be hated b/c my views are based on the Bible and not manmade catechism written unregenerate men...

So how are you so sure YOU are the one with the "truth"...

So what is "any other gospel"?
Let me give you a few:
purgatory
mariology
calling priest holy father
eating a Jesus wafer
praying to non saint thomas and others
holy water
incense
salvation by works
infant baptism
confession to priest
bowing to pope
indulgences (giving money to that church so your sins or a dead family member's sins would be forgiven)
and there is many more ...

Wow...

So I am sorry gentlemen. I do not mean to offend in any way. I do love all catholics ....

I can tell...

.... Take Christmas for example. If you research the origins of Christmas, you learn that the holy day had been celebrated by pagans for hundereds of years prior to Christ....

Geez.....not again.....Santa Claus is da debil!!

Do some research on Hitler and the Popes. You will learn that Hitler and the Popes were in bed together... Seems strange for a Christian leader to be big buddies with a psycho like Hitler...

So were US Presidents, what is your point?

There many stories of the persecution that came out of rome towards people like me, .....

That paranoia runs rampant...

Just for my personal interest, which denomination is it you proclaim to be the "True" Christian religion that you espouse?

 

[rjcruiser]

Not saying that I agree with the way that bmpique has delivered his thoughts....and I am in no way a Catholic scholar....but his post brings up some questions that I have.

Does the Catholic church teach one to pray to Mary? Why?

Does the Catholic church teach that Mary was perfect?

Does the Catholic church still practice Indulgences?

Does the Catholic church teach that there is a place besides Heaven and Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- Purgatory?

Dawg2/PJason,
Seeing that you two are Catholics...how do you believe one gets to heaven?

 

[PJason]

Not saying that I agree with the way that bmpique has delivered his thoughts....and I am in no way a Catholic scholar....but his post brings up some questions that I have.

I would take issue with them being his thoughts. They are mostly regurgitated musings copied and pasted from a website.

Does the Catholic Church teach one to pray to Mary? Why?

Pray tell what does the word “pray” mean? I ask all my friends to pray for all those I love and for me.

Does the Catholic church teach that Mary was perfect?

Mary was Immaculately Conceived. At the movement of her conception she received God’s grace thus wiping away the stain of original sin. Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and must clean. The Ark of the Old Covenant was as required by God was purified, why would He do any less for the Ark of the New Covenant?

Does the Catholic Church still practice Indulgences?

Yes. Do you know what an indulgences is?

Does the Catholic church teach that there is a place besides Heaven and Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- Purgatory?

Yes, so did the Jews, so did Jesus and the Apostles. Nothing unclean can enter into Heaven. At the wedding feast those who tried entering in their dirty garments were turned back and given clean ones. They were on their way to Heaven already but had to be made clean in order to enter. Those going the other way are going no matter what. They will not enter Purgatory.

Dawg2/PJason,
Seeing that you two are Catholics...how do you believe one gets to heaven?

Through a belief in Jesus Christ and doing as He asked.

 

[rjcruiser]

Mary was Immaculately Conceived. At the movement of her conception she received God’s grace thus wiping away the stain of original sin. Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and must clean. The Ark of the Old Covenant was as required by God was purified, why would He do any less for the Ark of the New Covenant?.

Where is this in the Bible? I thought Christ was born perfect because He was 100% God and 100% Man. We all know that God is perfect. Also, Rom 3:23. All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. It doesn't say all less Mary.

Yes. Do you know what an indulgences is?

My understanding is it is paying for someone's sins who has already died. Is this a proper understanding?

Yes, so did the Jews, so did Jesus and the Apostles. Nothing unclean can enter into Heaven. At the wedding feast those who tried entering in their dirty garments were turned back and given clean ones. They were on their way to Heaven already but had to be made clean in order to enter. Those going the other way are going no matter what. They will not enter Purgatory.

Those at the wedding feast were not on their way to Heaven. They thought they were, but they were deceived and not on the narrow path. They are like those in Luke 13:27 that thought they were believers and when they die, God will send them away to H*** for they were not true believers. There are only two types of people, those that have been saved by the grace of God and those who have not. There is no Biblical basis for purgatory.

 

[dawg2]

Where is this in the Bible? I thought Christ was born perfect because He was 100% God and 100% Man. We all know that God is perfect. Also, Rom 3:23. All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. It doesn't say all less Mary.

Luke 2:41-51 - in searching for Jesus and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings.

John 7:3-4; Mark 3:21 - we see that younger "brothers" were advising Jesus. But this would have been extremely disrespectful for devout Jews if these were Jesus' biological brothers.

John 19:25 - the following verses prove that James and Joseph are Jesus' cousins and not his brothers: Mary the wife of Clopas is the sister of the Virgin Mary.

Matt. 27:61, 28:1 - Matthew even refers to Mary the wife of Clopas as "the other Mary."

Matt. 27:56; Mark 15:47 - Mary the wife of Clopas is the mother of James and Joseph.

Mark 6:3 - James and Joseph are called the "brothers" of Jesus. So James and Joseph are Jesus' cousins.


.


My understanding is it is paying for someone's sins who has already died. Is this a proper understanding?

Read this: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9411fea1sb2.asp

Those at the wedding feast were not on their way to Heaven. They thought they were, but they were deceived and not on the narrow path. They are like those in Luke 13:27 that thought they were believers and when they die, God will send them away to H*** for they were not true believers. There are only two types of people, those that have been saved by the grace of God and those who have not. There is no Biblical basis for purgatory.

1 Corinthians 3:14–15: "If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." The Latinate word purgatory means a purgation or burning by fire. Paul was referring to a purgation process whereby a man is saved even though his works are burned away. This is precisely what the Catholic Church teaches.

See Blue above

 

[PJason]

Where is this in the Bible? I thought Christ was born perfect because He was 100% God and 100% Man. We all know that God is perfect.

100% God would make Him perfect 100% Man would make Him imperfect. All men have sinned Christ is 100% Man has he sinned? Christ being born of Mary, receives her human nature, receiving God’s Grace at conception would remove the stain of original sin from Mary, so she could not to pass on a sinful nature she would have to be without sin. Think about this for a minute. You have glass covered in manure and water that has gone through the RO process. Do you pour the pure water into the dirty glass? Or do you make sure the glass itself in clean too?

You can not put something clean into a dirty vessel and have it remain clean. God could have just made Jesus appear grown 100% God 100% Man. Yet he chose to use Mary as His new Ark, a vessel that must be pure.

Also, Rom 3:23. All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. It doesn't say all less Mary.

It also says that all have men have died. Have all men died?

My understanding is it is paying for someone's sins who has already died. Is this a proper understanding?

No it is not.

Those at the wedding feast were not on their way to Heaven. They thought they were, but they were deceived and not on the narrow path. They are like those in Luke 13:27 that thought they were believers and when they die, God will send them away to H*** for they were not true believers.

But those who are brought into the wedding feast are giving clean wedding garments; they are not allowed to be unclean; which is why the one is thrown out.
Let me ask you this; is there compassion in H e ll or suffering in Heaven?

There are only two types of people, those that have been saved by the grace of God and those who have not.

I do not disagree. Those in purgatory are saved but they must first be made clean. They must first have the wood and straw burnt away to reveal the Gold and Silver.

There is no Biblical basis for purgatory.

While Church doctrine does not have to be found in the Sacred Scripture, because we do not believe in Sola Scriptura, it may not contradict Sacred Scripture. Luckily Purgatory can both be found in the Sacred Scripture and does not contradict Sacred Scripture.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

 

[rjcruiser]

because we do not believe in Sola Scriptura

Ahhh....this explains everything I need to know about your religion.


Revelation 23:18-19
18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;

19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

The 5 Solas are the backbone of true Christianity.

1. Sola Scriptura ("By Scripture Alone")
2. Sola Fide ("By Faith Alone")
3. Sola Gratia ("By Grace Alone")
4. Solus Christus ("Christ Alone")
5. Soli Deo Gloria ("Glory to God Alone")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Solas

 

[PJason]

Ahhh....this explains everything I need to know about your religion.

Yes it does explain Christianity very well.

Revelation 23:18-19
18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;

19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

So why then did Luther, Calvin, and the writers of the KJV change it so much?

BTW this verse talks about the Apocalypse only. The Bible had yet to be compiled when it was written. Which begs the question, what about those folks who lived after the Death and Resurrection of Christ and before the Bible was compiled? They would never have used oral tradition would they?

The 5 Solas are the backbone of true Christianity.

And magically appear 1500 years after Christ.

While the 5 Solas may sound nice, alone you will never find the Truth.

 

[dawg2]

....And magically appear 1500 years after Christ.

Interesting that some people talk of Jesus, the Apostles, the death and resurrection of Christ and then "magically" jump 1,500 years into the future in the blink of an eye...and say Catholics changed the Bible.

 

[Doc_Holliday23]

some is and some ain't, just like every other denomination.

 

[rjcruiser]

So why then did Luther, Calvin, and the writers of the KJV change it so much?

Calvin and Luther didn't change the bible...they just translated it from Latin into German (Wycliffe into English) so that the common man of the day could read it, study it and know what it said. Why would the Roman Catholic church try to keep the people from reading the Word of God on their own by keeping it in Latin?

BTW, I prefer the NAS or NKJV...the KJV can be difficult to read with all of the thees and thous in it.

And magically appear 1500 years after Christ.

Again, it didn't magically appear after 1500 years. It just took that long (actually 1300 years) for Wycliffe to translate it from Latin to English.

While the 5 Solas may sound nice, alone you will never find the Truth.

Why not? All of these ideas come straight from the Bible. And it says in II Tim 3:16...All Scripture is inspired by God and profitible for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness.

I believe that if it is inspired by God, it is 100% true.

 

[rjcruiser]

and say Catholics changed the Bible.

I never said that Catholics changed the bible. I believe that God has caused the Bible to be made up of what it is today. He inspired men to write it...He has kept it the way He wants it. I don't think that we disagree that the Bible is what it is.

I will say based on PJason's post, Catholics have added to it.

 

[dawg2]

Where did the 5 Solas come from and who made them up? Not trying to be a troll, just wondering for my own edification and I'm too lazy to Google them. lol

DW

 

[rjcruiser]

Where did the 5 Solas come from and who made them up? Not trying to be a troll, just wondering for my own edification and I'm too lazy to Google them. lol

DW

See post number 60 for background link on the 5 solas as per Wikipedia.

They are based upon doctrines taught within the Bible.

 

[dawg2]

Ahhh....this explains everything I need to know about your religion.


Revelation 23:18-19
18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;

19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

The 5 Solas are the backbone of true Christianity.

1. Sola Scriptura ("By Scripture Alone")
2. Sola Fide ("By Faith Alone")
3. Sola Gratia ("By Grace Alone")
4. Solus Christus ("Christ Alone")
5. Soli Deo Gloria ("Glory to God Alone")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Solas

See post number 60 for background link on the 5 solas as per Wikipedia.

They are based upon doctrines taught within the Bible.

From "whom" did they come?

 

[rjcruiser]

Hence, THE BIBLE CAME FROM THE CHURCH. THE CHURCH DID NOT COME FROM THE BIBLE. Christianity existed over 300 years without one single Bible Christian.

DW

The Bible didn't come from the church...it came from God. The church is what God is using to spread the Bible and its message of the Gospel.

So do you believe in the book of Mormon?

 

[rjcruiser]

Wikipedia? Are you joking? Do you know any Tom, Dick or Harry can post stuff there?

Please use a credible source.

DW

Figured it was a pretty good basis of the 5 solas that was a non-biased source. Yes...I can give you other resources that talk about it, but didn't want to source to be labeled biased.