NE GA Pappy
Mr. Pappy
one thing is for sure, without young people coming in and staying, the church is dying. If you look at your congregation and 50% is over the age of 55, that church is living on borrowed time
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Church Switchers
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j_seph
Senior Member
So you wpuld say someone like Jentzen Franklin goes and sits with the widows? Goes and consules any and all members when facing death of a loved one at hospital? Does the funeral of his members? We have about 30 in our church.
j_seph
Senior Member
Do you nit say God today is the same God 200 years ago when people were being saved? Too many churches telling people what they want to hear instead of what they need to hear.
NE GA Pappy
Mr. Pappy
do you think that anyone in charge of a 15000 person organization can do that? They have multiple pastors, each with specific responsibilities and functions.
That is a lot like asking if you think Trump cooks homemade meals for his employees when they have a family crisis.
NE GA Pappy
Mr. Pappy
I don't understand why people think that pastors of larger churches can't preach the truth of the gospel too. Do you really believe that they all get up there and tickle the ears of the attendees? I am sure there are some pastors like that, but I know of a few pastors of churches with 2000+ members who speak the truth without fail
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
How about just doing what the early church did, and doing it correctly with love.
“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.”
― G.K. Chesterton, What's Wrong with the World
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
I'm thinking when a church splits over the Pastor not using the KJV, the color of the carpet, incorporating new music into the worship service, etc. there ain't much, if anything been lost. Those churches have lost their purpose long before splits under those circumstances ever happen. Churches that have a burning and abiding love for the lost are above being torn apart by such trivialities. It's the stagnant and dying churches that are torn apart when the goats butt heads. Sheep don't turn on each other.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Agreed. The entire purpose of the church is to grow the church. Nothing says there's a cap on how big it can get as long as it's preaching in accordance with scripture. There ARE some really good BIG churches out there that have gotten big by doing it right. It's counterintuitive to think if it's being done in accordance with scripture it shouldn't be growing. It absolutely should.
GunnSmokeer
Senior Member
A man was the sole survivor of a shipwreck, and lived alone for
10 years on a small desert island.
Then a Navy ship showed up and sailors came ashore to rescue him.
The man showed them around the tiny island first, and proudly showed the Navy personnel the things he'd built and how he managed to survive.
They noticed he had built three huts, not far from each other.
Why THREE, they asked?
"Well," he pointed to one and said: "that one is my house, to live in."
"And the building to the left of it is my church, where I worship."
What about that other one, to the right?
"Oh, THAT...." "That's the church I used to attend."
10 years on a small desert island.
Then a Navy ship showed up and sailors came ashore to rescue him.
The man showed them around the tiny island first, and proudly showed the Navy personnel the things he'd built and how he managed to survive.
They noticed he had built three huts, not far from each other.
Why THREE, they asked?
"Well," he pointed to one and said: "that one is my house, to live in."
"And the building to the left of it is my church, where I worship."
What about that other one, to the right?
"Oh, THAT...." "That's the church I used to attend."
BeerThirty
Senior Member
I agree.
But in many cases unfortunately, it is the trivial things that attract and retain members. And this is why churches get hung up on those types of trivial things... because every soul is valued and worth of the effort to be saved.
People comprise the church. People are not perfect. Therefore, churches are not perfect, and they never will be.
NE GA Pappy
Mr. Pappy
yep. I read somewhere that First Church of Jerusalem grew by 5000 members in one day.
gordon 2
Senior Member
So do we leave one church for another, switching, because we realize the former was not the church for us, mostly that the pastor's life, exegesis and exhortation is not perfect and not sufficient? There are somethings missing? No church can feed all? The church denies our different callings by secretly judging us as unworthy, offering not even guidance that we might struggle. That in the gospel message there is too much of the pastor's life and the life of this and that, the life of his church and not enough of Christ's?
And then we will with the present church when the time comes again switch that this church was not for us, not sufficient to our sanctification and so life and again and again? And so formed in our minds that the church is not always the church, we are hoppers of perfection from the churches that are like individual flower in bloom, in a bed of flowers, yet each must form, bloom and wither and so we are assured there will be to go to the next one perfect for now?
And then we will with the present church when the time comes again switch that this church was not for us, not sufficient to our sanctification and so life and again and again? And so formed in our minds that the church is not always the church, we are hoppers of perfection from the churches that are like individual flower in bloom, in a bed of flowers, yet each must form, bloom and wither and so we are assured there will be to go to the next one perfect for now?
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Sometimes it's not a nuance, it's broader issues. IE gay marriage or female pastors. Many have left churches they grew up with as some of the church yielded to contemporary societal pressures. They land in churches that facilitate a relationship with God on what they view as a more traditional manner. Thats not church hopping to me its seeking a church that shares your beliefs. It's a very significant portion of the Christian population at present.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I think sometimes younger people may leave the Church they grew up in because they begin to feel like it is just full of old people and they don't fit in any longer. Usually those Churches do often just die out.
They hear tell from their friends who have kids, how alive their Church is and how they have programs geared toward small children.
They hear tell from their friends who have kids, how alive their Church is and how they have programs geared toward small children.
j_seph
Senior Member
Not trying to argue, but if "A pastor is someone with the authority to lead religious services. Pastors lead church services and help others worship. Pastor is a religious title used mostly in Christian churches. The pastor is a leader within a church who has been ordained and therefore given the authority to conduct religious services." how can multiple pastors work?
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
There were multiple "pastors" in the first church in Jerusalem. Pretty sure the answer to you question lies in the term, "in one accord."
Yep, we had three ordained ministers at one time. Usually the Pastor or occasionally his assistant led services. The third was an older minister and helped the Pastor with visitations etc. The Pastor definitely leads the church and any sermons reflected it.
j_seph
Senior Member
Guess where I come from a Pastor leads. We have others who are called to preach (preachers) (lay preachers). They aren't or have not been called to "Pastor" a church. Course we also don't pay a pastor a 6 figure income a year either.
georgia_home
Senior Member
to a big extent, churches must be businesses. Big enough to support what they want to do. They have expenses, financials. Personnel. All that.
many of the managers at the church are not business people or money people. Some pick it up, many don’t. The head pastor and team may know religion, but maybe not the business.
other businesses help them determine how much they want to grow And what they want to focus on. These people help the church develop operational goals.
Teach about doing the finances. know what they want to do on the business side. what kind of congregation they want to have and the activities they have at their church. How to attract new folks. When to split off.
a friend of mine does this Part.
with people involved, good and bad can come of it. Much like guns, good and bad aren’t in the religion, but the people.
many of the managers at the church are not business people or money people. Some pick it up, many don’t. The head pastor and team may know religion, but maybe not the business.
other businesses help them determine how much they want to grow And what they want to focus on. These people help the church develop operational goals.
Teach about doing the finances. know what they want to do on the business side. what kind of congregation they want to have and the activities they have at their church. How to attract new folks. When to split off.
a friend of mine does this Part.
with people involved, good and bad can come of it. Much like guns, good and bad aren’t in the religion, but the people.
gordon 2
Senior Member
All the business model talk about an individual church does it also follow that the individual church is as in business competition, so in church competition with other individual churches? Or are they each targeting a need that an other church cannot meet? As Paul was an apostle to the gentiles, can an apostle plant a church to the middle class today or to the upper classes who are shakers and movers for example? Can the Evangelical church target itself as to the great commission, where most in the church are Episcopalian-Anglican, simply target because most are Episcopalian-Anglican?
Can the church constitute itself out of the malcontents who pick themselves up into a body so to minister to their own kind so that the great commission is to reach the people that might be as they are and so that pointing to differences in the churches they do ferment in others to find differences with them? What levain is this? How can all our churches as these be Christ's body who don't seem to work as Paul saw fit, even that he might find sickly to minister any commission with godly assurance and confidence? And what kind of believer would they make--- one that would need to check the bible on ever word a pastor makes, just in case, just in case?
Can the church constitute itself out of the malcontents who pick themselves up into a body so to minister to their own kind so that the great commission is to reach the people that might be as they are and so that pointing to differences in the churches they do ferment in others to find differences with them? What levain is this? How can all our churches as these be Christ's body who don't seem to work as Paul saw fit, even that he might find sickly to minister any commission with godly assurance and confidence? And what kind of believer would they make--- one that would need to check the bible on ever word a pastor makes, just in case, just in case?
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