Do you have to be Baptized to go to Heaven?

[rjcruiser]

The baptizing of whole households would have to include infants and children too.

Why would it have to? Not in the context it is used.

I would guess if baptizing infants was strictly forbidden it would have been negligent to not include it in the scripture.

What is the purpose of Baptism and who is it for? It is to be a public demonstration of a true believer's faith in Christ. Like circumcision for the Jews. Something that sets them apart from the rest of the world. Something that identifies them with Christ.

If it is strictly for believers, why would it even be a question as to if infants need to be baptized. Obviously, a child can't make a decision of faith, so no need to be baptized or even make it forbidden. So the scripture is not being negligent by not including it.

 

[rjcruiser]

Well I am pretty sure they didn't keep the kids in the barn

Do you have any infants in your household? What about your parents household? I know plenty of people who don't have any kids in there household.

 

[farmasis]

Can you lose your salvation? Sure you can! Just as you had to choose to accept Christ you can choose to deny him also.

You can lose or give back your salvation if you are stronger than God.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:27-28)

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30)

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. (Eph 1:13-14)

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. (John 6:39)

He who endures to the end will be saved (Matthew 10:22)

He who perseveres to the end will be saved (Matthew 24:13

Whoever loses his life for my sake will be saved (Mark 8:35)

Jesus will appear a second time, to bring salvation (Hebrews 9:28)

These were given specifically to the Jews, who will remain through the tribulation because grace was not extended to them because of their rejection.

These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt 10: 5-6)

It is reckless to think that you can ask Jesus into your heart then do whatever you wish without consequence.

DW

True.

 

[Spotlite]

Of course we are to be baptised, just as we are to go out and preach the gospel-- but that doesn't save us.......

OK, were back on the same page now.

Well I am pretty sure they didn't keep the kids in the barn

 

[PWalls]

It is reckless to think that you can ask Jesus into your heart then do whatever you wish without consequence.

I agree. I believe in OSAS and do not think that means a license to do whatever you want. Anyone that preaches living in sin wilfully even though their salvation is secured is preaching a false doctrine.

 

[Spotlite]

I agree. I believe in OSAS and do not think that means a license to do whatever you want. Anyone that preaches living in sin wilfully even though their salvation is secured is preaching a false doctrine.

 

[rjcruiser]

I would agree with that for sure.

So do I....I guess we found something we can all agree on

 

[Mako22]

All you have to do to get saved (born again) is repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[kw5891]

Well, in another thread, this got brought up. See quote below.



I do believe that baptism is a command from God. I believe that it is for people that have turned from Sin to God (ie true believers...not for babies or infants). However, there is no scripture that points to the fact that you must be baptized to be saved.

For those of you who believe this, I bring up the thief on the cross next to Christ. He didn't turn from his sin until moments before his death. He wasn't baptized, yet Christ says to him that they will see eachother in paradise (Heaven).

lets say jesus did it & with water & holy spirit

 

[Dunamis]

I agree. I believe in OSAS and do not think that means a license to do whatever you want. Anyone that preaches living in sin wilfully even though their salvation is secured is preaching a false doctrine.

Help me understand something? You guys believe in OSAS, yet say that "Anyone that preaches living in sin willfully even though their salvation is secured is preaching a false doctrine". So if someone DOES choose to live however they want to after they get saved, are there no consequences? Shouldn't we ban together and mean-mug them since regardless of how they live, they will have a mansion, or at least a tent, in Glory right next to ours?

 

[farmasis]

are there no consequences?

Yes, there will be consequences for unconfessed sin and if we choose to continue to live in sin despite being saved.

God will punish us on earth;

Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. (Hebrews 12)

and also in heaven:

each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. (1 cor 3)

There will not be a free pass on sin just because we are saved.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. (2 cor 5)

 

[Dunamis]

As far as OSAS is concerned, if I can get "saved" and live like I want to and still get into Glory, why would someone not take advantage of that? I mean you get your cake and can eat it too.

Disclaimer: I'm throwing this out there for discussion purposes. I am saved!

 

[Spotlite]

As far as OSAS is concerned, if I can get "saved" and live like I want to and still get into Glory, why would someone not take advantage of that? I mean you get your cake and can eat it too.

Disclaimer: I'm throwing this out there for discussion purposes. I am saved!

Dunamis, I actually found out, there really are two beliefs in OSAS. You and I have probably always heard the OSAS side of it dont matter how you live, your saved, and theres the other side of they were never truly saved to begin with if they willfully sin after salvation. Bottom line, true born again Christians are gonna live a holy clean life anyway.

 

[Dunamis]

"What if's" can sometimes be good, because they offer the opportunity to broaden our understanding. In a perfect world, people get saved, fall head-over-heals in love with Jesus, and grow in their relationship with Him until they garduate from thid life into the next.

Any realist will tell you it doesn't always happen that way. This is the stand point from which I want to ask a question. We all know the "life happens". If someone were to get "saved", have life deal them a sorry hand, and the person freely chose to not to follow through with the lifestyle changes that accompany salvation. They choose to "walk away". Does "OSAS" dictate that even in the above circumstance this person goes to Glory even though they freely chose to walk away?

 

[farmasis]

"What if's" can sometimes be good, because they offer the opportunity to broaden our understanding. In a perfect world, people get saved, fall head-over-heals in love with Jesus, and grow in their relationship with Him until they garduate from thid life into the next.

Any realist will tell you it doesn't always happen that way. This is the stand point from which I want to ask a question. We all know the "life happens". If someone were to get "saved", have life deal them a sorry hand, and the person freely chose to not to follow through with the lifestyle changes that accompany salvation. They choose to "walk away". Does "OSAS" dictate that even in the above circumstance this person goes to Glory even though they freely chose to walk away?

You cannot walk away. You cannot lose your salvation in my Bible.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:27-28)

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30)

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. (Eph 1:13-14)

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. (John 6:39)

Will someone who believes that you can lose your salvation please explain to me why God sent his son to die for temporary salvation when he could have continued sacrifices or how you can be stronger than God and remove yourself from his hand when he says nobody can (that includes yourself)?

 

[farmasis]

Dunamis, I actually found out, there really are two beliefs in OSAS. You and I have probably always heard the OSAS side of it dont matter how you live, your saved, and theres the other side of they were never truly saved to begin with if they willfully sin after salvation. Bottom line, true born again Christians are gonna live a holy clean life anyway.

I don't think there are two different versions of OSAS. I think that if a person does go back to where he was and leaves the life they lived for Christ, one must question if he was truely saved to begin with (albeit that is between the man and God.) There is proof of this when Paul says that if they would have been of us, they would have remained with us, and that when Jesus comes into your life, your life should change.

 

[BRANCHWYNN]

how about this for a question? I wonder if I walk with HIM daily, and I make HIM LORD of my life, have fellowship regularly with brothers and sisters in CHRIST, read HIS WORD daily. Talk to HIM in prayer so that I can build my relationship with HIM, SO that I can be in HIS will for my life, attend church as he has commanded to worship HIM===NOT TO SEE if I can get somethin out of it for me---------but to praise AND WORSHIP HIM......Im still a pig who wants to run to the mud.......we all are.....but through obedience and seeking what he has for my purpose for his GLORY, HE TAKES THE TASTE of the mud from my mouth and from my thoughts. Yet, when I am not in touch with HIM and I dont seek HIM, my relationship is distant when I have jumped back in the mud, not because I want the things of the WORLD, but because I have focused on the WORLD and not HIM. That is the difference, I may be like the hogg at the show who has been cleaned up, sprayed with perfume, and have a big red bow around my neck but the hogg will always run to the mud. Once you have been TRULY SAVED, you may get in the mud....but unlike the hogg, you know through THE HOLY SPIRIT......that you shouldn't be in the mud.....I ONCE WAS BLIND BUT NOW I SEE. OBEDIENCE does not keep me free from sin. But it can help me from a path of distruction...and bearing no fruit. So, to get saved and think you got some fire insurance aint gone get it....HE expects us to grow in his likeness and you cant do that by living the same life you lived before in the mud and wanting to without remorse.

 

[PWalls]

We all know the "life happens". If someone were to get "saved", have life deal them a sorry hand, and the person freely chose to not to follow through with the lifestyle changes that accompany salvation. They choose to "walk away". Does "OSAS" dictate that even in the above circumstance this person goes to Glory even though they freely chose to walk away?

The short answer is "yes". Jesus secured your Salvation.

Now, in your example above, that person will obviously have to face the consequences of his sin here in this life and in Heaven.

Also, I believe in Romans 8:28. Once you are saved, God is the one that makes "life happens" situations. Life is geared towards making you grow. If someone has a "life happens" situation and they drift or fall away, then their lack of faith is a prime culprit or how they respond. I don't like it when someone says "that's life" or some other similar response. In actuality, they should say "that's God" and then examine their response. That is how you grow. Life is a test of faith from God. How we respond is evidence of our faith.

 

[Spotlite]

I think that if a person does go back to where he was and leaves the life they lived for Christ, one must question if he was truely saved to begin with

my point is you have Joe Blow over here that preaches OSAS and secured salvation while sleeping with the neighbors wife cause he has nothing to worry about, he can do what ever cause he has been saved.

Then of course, you have your statement above..............

Which one is right or wrong is not the issue, you have 2 different versions of OSAS that others hear.

 

[PWalls]

Which one is right or wrong is not the issue, you have 2 different versions of OSAS that others hear.

I have never heard that other version preached that you and others say. I have never heard a preacher in a pulpit or anywhere else say OSAS is a license to sin. It doesn't make doctrinal sense and is no where in the Bible. Anyone that preaches that or believes in it is clearly and utterly wrong. It is my opinion that this viewpoint was started by people who do not believe in OSAS to try and discredit that doctrine or was started by people weak in the Word.