Doe Harvest

[High road]

Think about it this way almost half of Union is in the CNF and is closed to antlerless deer hunting. That is alot of deer per sq mile being harvested.

 

[Joe Brandon]

Blow guns only for the entirety of the season in the mountains. No does quality buck only.

 

[Buckman18]

Blow guns only for the entirety of the season in the mountains. No does quality buck only.

Dang Joe! You going hard core with the blow guns now??

 

[splatek]

@Joe Brandon I know a few guys that would still kill em ... @Buckman18 being one.

 

[Joe Brandon]

@Joe Brandon I know a few guys that would still kill em ... @Buckman18 being one.

Now this is true!!!! If @Buckman18 doesn't tag out its because he didn't go. The mans 15 YO kills bigger bucks than Ive ever seen and thats a fact!

 

[Buckman18]

@Joe Brandon I know a few guys that would still kill em ... @Buckman18 being one.

Haha yeah right! Maybe if I wore realtree camo?

Now this is true!!!! If @Buckman18 doesn't tag out its because he didn't go. The mans 15 YO kills bigger bucks than Ive ever seen and thats a fact!

She is a dang savage! I should’ve never exposed her to the awesomeness of the Sasquatch Georgia Facebook group? Haha

 

[C.Killmaster]

Here are the current population trend estimates. Doe harvest is increasing because the population is increasing on private land. The more North the arrow points the greater the increase, a horizontal arrow is stable, and south is declining. This also doesn't factor in the fact that a huge percentage of the land in the mountain counties is CNF with low populations, so the increase on private land is that much greater. The number of deer killed just on private land in the mountains is starting to rival that of many Piedmont counties.

 

[Big7]

I’ve been curious about this as well. And the days from some states crossbow harvest is as much or more than rifles. They’re massacring them.
It would be interesting to see what a few years of doe days only for does regardless of weapon.

Off topic but whatever the harvest is, one weapon should not have privilege over the other.

In other words, we should all play by the same rules regardless of weapon used.

 

[splatek]

Here are the current population trend estimates. Doe harvest is increasing because the population is increasing on private land. The more North the arrow points the greater the increase, a horizontal arrow is stable, and south is declining. This also doesn't factor in the fact that a huge percentage of the land in the mountain counties is CNF with low populations, so the increase on private land is that much greater. The number of deer killed just on private land in the mountains is starting to rival that of many Piedmont counties.

View attachment 1201384

Charlie, what is the hypothesis on how that will effect deer in the forest? More kills on private, reduce CNF deer? Or are the private deer sort of a different deer herd that tends to stick around private and not venture out in to the forest much?

Unfortunately, that graph and the way it's described would have someone believe that the population densities are increasing across the counties, not just on private.

Thanks for these data.

 

[C.Killmaster]

Charlie, what is the hypothesis on how that will effect deer in the forest? More kills on private, reduce CNF deer? Or are the private deer sort of a different deer herd that tends to stick around private and not venture out in to the forest much?

Unfortunately, that graph and the way it's described would have someone believe that the population densities are increasing across the counties, not just on private.

Thanks for these data.

Increasing harvest on private land will no doubt affect CNF to some extent, but we also can't let the population on private land spiral out of control. Private land is the reason there are still huntable populations on CNF. When we did the research and collared those does their survival was really high, 80 to 90% annual survival rates. But the mortalities were mostly associated with harvest on private lands. I certainly understand how misleading the graph can be, which is why I don't make it publicly available. I only wanted to provide a small area on this thread where I could add the relevant context. We are ultimately going to have to increase private land doe harvest in order to stabilize the population, we can't just let it increase unchecked to the point where damage is occurring and health declines. Trying to figure out the best balance up there is one of the more difficult things to address in my career.

 

[ddd-shooter]

Increasing harvest on private land will no doubt affect CNF to some extent, but we also can't let the population on private land spiral out of control. Private land is the reason there are still huntable populations on CNF. When we did the research and collared those does their survival was really high, 80 to 90% annual survival rates. But the mortalities were mostly associated with harvest on private lands. I certainly understand how misleading the graph can be, which is why I don't make it publicly available. I only wanted to provide a small area on this thread where I could add the relevant context. We are ultimately going to have to increase private land doe harvest in order to stabilize the population, we can't just let it increase unchecked to the point where damage is occurring and health declines. Trying to figure out the best balance up there is one of the more difficult things to address in my career.

Thank you for participating, what a resource we have.
A few questions, I’m not trying to lead you here, just honestly don’t know.
1. Are you thinking we still need to up private land harvest, since we’re taking a 1:1 ratio in union county?
2. When we first restocked deer, we had ample deer on public, which was the only place we had them, and they spilled over onto private. Could the reverse be true? or is the habitat too unsuitable to facilitate a return?
3. What’s the timeline of the trend, and how do you compensate for baiting only being legalized recently? Wouldn’t that skew the numbers? I’d think it would make it appear populations are increasing, when in actuality we just recently got the same tools as our southern compatriots who are remaining flat or declining with current management practices.

 

[C.Killmaster]

Thank you for participating, what a resource we have.
A few questions, I’m not trying to lead you here, just honestly don’t know.
1. Are you thinking we still need to up private land harvest, since we’re taking a 1:1 ratio in union county?
2. When we first restocked deer, we had ample deer on public, which was the only place we had them, and they spilled over onto private. Could the reverse be true? or is the habitat too unsuitable to facilitate a return?
3. What’s the timeline of the trend, and how do you compensate for baiting only being legalized recently? Wouldn’t that skew the numbers? I’d think it would make it appear populations are increasing, when in actuality we just recently got the same tools as our southern compatriots who are remaining flat or declining with current management practices.

No problem, glad to do it. Been here since 2005.

1. We aren't making any changes for the next 2 seasons, but at that point we'll probably have some recommended changes from our next deer management plan.
2. I don't think we're going to see that happen without either a decrease in predators or a major change in habitat, or some combination of both. There just isn't enough adequate fawning cover to shield enough of them from the volume of predators.
3. That is a 5-year population trend. We actually looked at harvest rates of hunting over bait versus not and there wasn't any significant difference. Not only that, but there's no reason we would see an increase in those counties as a result of bait and not in most other counties all over north Georgia. Many southern counties have over-abundant deer populations despite having season long doe days and bait.

 

[ddd-shooter]

No problem, glad to do it. Been here since 2005.

1. We aren't making any changes for the next 2 seasons, but at that point we'll probably have some recommended changes from our next deer management plan.
2. I don't think we're going to see that happen without either a decrease in predators or a major change in habitat, or some combination of both. There just isn't enough adequate fawning cover to shield enough of them from the volume of predators.
3. That is a 5-year population trend. We actually looked at harvest rates of hunting over bait versus not and there wasn't any significant difference. Not only that, but there's no reason we would see an increase in those counties as a result of bait and not in most other counties all over north Georgia. Many southern counties have over-abundant deer populations despite having season long doe days and bait.

Thank you sir! Much appreciated!

 

[Joe Brandon]

Haha yeah right! Maybe if I wore realtree camo?


She is a dang savage! I should’ve never exposed her to the awesomeness of the Sasquatch Georgia Facebook group? Haha

Them fools boy, haha!

 

[Para Bellum]

That would be incredible. Interested to know how you came up with that number

Keep in mind, I said my immediate area. Not talking about the whole county by any means. They just don’t disperse. They stay on the fringe of the NF where the edge/food is. Mostly does. As far as calculation, there are different ways. We used the spotlight method at Clemson a long time ago. No way I could ever remember the math involved after the data was collected. I live a little over three miles from the closest highway and it’s not uncommon to count 350 deer in the mornings or evenings.

 

[Para Bellum]

That would be one deer every 6.4 acres.

Easily.

 

[Para Bellum]

Exactly,. There was quite a bit of bucks and I'm sure does that was killed on private land that boarders forest service because the bait this year. I know of many. It would make you think the population is booming so let's hammer down and in all reality they still need all the help they can get to help with the numbers. It's only more salt in the wound this year. As far as the archery antlerless deal all season, it needs to go. Or at least the crossbows. All it takes is one person that is ambitious enough to really hurt the local population legally. If you don't think people do that you’re only kidding yourself. I've seen it all season. Some places can stand that pressure but most can't.

This. They don’t disperse. At least the does and young bucks don’t.

 

[Raylander]

This. They don’t disperse. At least the does and young bucks don’t

You’re seeing the same 20 deer multiple times..

 

[Para Bellum]

One thing that amazes me in the mountains is as tough as it is for deer to make a living up there the hogs seem to be absolutely thriving. I have never seen as many pigs as I did this season. I cover a lot of ground spread throughout the national forest, and I was seeing hogs in every single area that I hunted. I realize they are omnivorous, and are therefore able to survive on a wider variety of food than a deer. Couple that with the fact that they reproduce at an exponential rate, and it is a recipe for disaster. I had an area where the Scarlet Reds were loaded this fall, but the pigs had absolutely taken over that entire mountain. I don’t think you would’ve found a deer within a mile of there. Even the Bears cleared out.

Saw an absolute ton of hog sign at 3300’ this weekend. It was unreal. Looked like someone disced up two or three acres.

 

[Para Bellum]

You’re seeing the same 20 deer multiple times..

Not so much.