Falwell, Jr.

[SemperFiDawg]

I know local churches have hypocrites in them, but you can’t separate Jesus from His church. He built the church. Leftists do the same thing with Jesus and Paul, as if the two had conflicting messages.

It is imperative that a distinction is made here. There are 2 different kinds of 'Church'. There is the spiritual 'Church' that consist of believers. It exists in the spiritual realm and is part of the Kingdom of Heaven. The membership of this Church is known only to Christ and the members thereof.

Then there is the physical 'church' that basically is in essence, 'meeting halls' where believers congregate. This encompasses everything from the vast empire of the Roman Catholic Church to the little country church at the fork in the road, and is what most people think of when 'church' is mentioned. The distinction must be made between the two, because as you and others have noted, being a member of one has absolutely no bearing on if you are a member of the other. God, religion, and church have a bad name because of the physical church, not the spiritual one, yet most people are ignorant of the distinction and it's bearing on the entire context of the conversation. There's not a reply in this thread that isn't impacted by this fact.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

You cannot separate Christ from his church.

The error is in assuming that Christ's church is more highly correlated with those organizations and their buildings than with those who follow Christ who have learned to avoid the charade of the buildings and organizations.

And you can't broad-brush everyone who goes to a traditional 'physical' church (or everyone who doesn't for that matter) of being part of a "charade." Physical churches are just like people. Some are humble, true, just, and wise and some are false, corrupt, unwise and prideful.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

If I'm looking for God, I think I am a lot more likely to encounter him alone on a mountaintop, waist deep in a secluded stream, or somewhere else out in his creation than in a stuffy building full of folks judging me.

I've learned I can see God anywhere if I have enough sense to open my eyes, my ears, and most importantly, my heart. Hint: It's all God...all the time.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I know it's hard to do, but if we all viewed the church as a hospital for sinners rather than a trophy case for saints, we might all be better off.

Well said. I like that.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

We were going to a Baptist church here for a while that was way bigger than the church I or my wife grew up in. We decided to try it after my daughter was born because there were going to be a lot of kids her age for her to grow up in church with. It was not for us. There were like six pastors at this church. Why that many preachers are needed I have no idea. The main preacher was only a few years older than me (I’m 44) and that is way too young for my liking. I’d prefer somebody with some wisdom. The first half hour of church every Sunday was singing. But not hymns. “Contemporary” Christian music led by a seven piece band. One of the first times we saw this my wife looked at me and said, “I feel like I’m at an Allman Brothers concert.” It has that feel but the music wasn’t nearly as good. Then we would get to the sermon. This usually lasted well over an hour. So by the time you left you had been there going on two hours. Then at one point they decided they were going to put Sunday school after church. Some of this may seem petty but I like what I like.

The real issue though was the head pastor was just too much of a young hotshot. It was telling to me that his major in college was psychology. And clearly thought he was a master of it. At the end of every service he thought he was going to get some sort of massive visit to the alter. My thoughts on that are, let the Lord move people to do that. If they are just doing it because they have been manipulated and whipped up into a guilty frenzy then you’re doing it wrong.

The final straw for me was he launched this big campaign to build a “family resource center”. This church was already huge at the time but he wanted to launch a major construction project. Nobody seemed to know exactly what a family resource center was. Contributions from the congregation were tracked by the word FORWARD being up in lights at the front of the sanctuary. When a certain milestone was met he would make a big showing of turning on a mother bulb in the word. Well after a while the giving began to stall. Guess what that biscuit eater did. He said in a sermon that the project was going to happen and if there wasn’t enough money for it that was on us. We are talking millions of dollars. We didn’t give a dime. When it was all said and done guess what a “family resource center” turned out to be. A basketball gym with some classrooms attached to it. We were done. We went back to the small church I grew up in and we were married in. My daughter is only one of a handful of kids but she loves it there.

I don’t hide my sins and act holier than I am. I cuss, I drink some, I chew tobacco, I’ll play songs on my guitar that the Lord don’t love, I have a bad temper. But I’m also aware of when a preacher man is tryin to do a little walking too and the Lord don’t love that either. I benefit from being around other Christians weekly. There are no perfect churches. You just got to find one that’s at least trying to do it right and is basing it on what is Biblical.

I go to a little country church. It's full of folks about my age that lead hard lives and butted their heads against walls they shouldn't have(just like me) until their heads got sore: humble country folks. My son was married some years back. I went to his church for the wedding. Pastor was young and had that faddish hair-cut, skinny jeans, the whole nine yards. His wife had on a dress so short if she bent over I would have been able to tell if she ever had her tonsils out. They had the whole concert thing going in their Sunday service: green lasers, fog machines. I felt felt like a fish out of water and left wondering just what these folks went to church for, because you don't need that to hear a message......teachers don't teach with all that stuff in the school, at least I don't think they do.

 

[brutally honest]

I see Hillsong's lead (Australia) pastor has also stepped down over a prior sex scandal. Carl Lentz, the NYC Hillsong pastor, was fired last year over a sex scandal.

I'm beginning to see a pattern ...

 

[brutally honest]

I went to his church for the wedding. Pastor was young and had that faddish hair-cut, skinny jeans, the whole nine yards. His wife had on a dress so short if she bent over I would have been able to tell if she ever had her tonsils out. They had the whole concert thing going in their Sunday service: green lasers, fog machines. I felt felt like a fish out of water and left wondering just what these folks went to church for, because you don't need that to hear a message......teachers don't teach with all that stuff in the school, at least I don't think they do.

A sad commentary. Reminds me of this:

 

[SemperFiDawg]

A sad commentary. Reminds me of this:

 

[JB0704]

I think people get discouraged from church is because they are looking to much at man and not the Lord. When man fails and they will, people are let down.God is the standard!

Right. And the part that I have failed to properly communicate all these years is that it's not so much the leadership that pushed me away. It was the masses willing to go along with the insanity and overlook the hurt it was causing a few so they could be entertained on Sunday morning. If I can't trust the person in the pew next to me to believe in something, and stand up to injustice (and for Jesus in the process), why would I call them my "church family?" At that point, we are just equal customers of the entertainment business we buy into and I have other and more effective means to service.

@formula1 , I appreciate the reference to our discussions way back when. A lot of you guys showed me a lot of grace in a time period when I had an awful lot of hurt and animosity towards Christians in general. Those discussions are still remembered and appreciated.