Falwell, Jr.

[Danuwoa]

That sums it up pretty good, I reckon, and mirrors many things I have seen.
As for your last paragraph, I've spent a good bit of time around you. I'd put my money on you being a sincerely good and spiritually healthy person over 99% of the slicked-back preachers I've known any day.

I appreciate that man. I try to say a few times every day, “Jesus I’m a sinner. Have mercy.” He knows my heart. I have to trust that in the end that will be enough.

 

[JB0704]

We went back to the small church I grew up in and we were married in. My daughter is only one of a handful of kids but she loves it there.

I enjoyed the entire post, but wanted to single this comment out.......I think people excuse so much wrong in modern churches because they think the kids need something more than a small church is willing/able to provide. 100's of years of Christian children grew up in small congregations, and the faith perpetuated and thrived. Not because of the size of the building, but the message and the truth of the faith. Glad you found somewhere you belong. FWIW, my wife n kids are part of a smaller local church, the pastor of that church is a very good dude. The whole church came to my place to see my oldest daughter baptized in my pond (talk about a very cool moment, lotta history of baptisms in this pond too......my son had to be baptized in a local creek because at that time we didn't own a pond and weren't members of church, also very cool moment). They know they can call me for any help they need. They also know I ain't going on Sunday. I will feel like it's a "shame on me" moment if it went south from there.

 

[brutally honest]

When did I say I was a practicing New Testament Christian? Or read a Bible in a deer stand?

I’ve just heard that a lot. If it doesn’t apply to you, cool.

 

[brutally honest]

If I was going to be, I would go to a small, local community church, not a Church.

… and you might see me there.

 

[brutally honest]

In the case of all the churches I was aware of it was elders, of which the head pastor was one, and they were all generally "yes men," and never the type to push back. Some were very respected members of the community, but I guess they were the folks who believed in the vision more than the "rules" (Biblical church model). The one I attended had the head pastor, his brother, and two employees, subordinate to the pastor, as elders. So, the guy got 4 of seven votes automatically. It didn't matter........they openly stated their only role was to "affirm the head pastor." How or why would anybody agree to be a yes man by definition?

It perplexed me. And, more than the pastor, and the elders, I was bothered by the congregation who treated them with a reverence which should only be given to God. So I left. I tried some other places, but this "head pastors vision" was like a dang virus in almost all of them. There is a lot more to it. I also get frustrated with the inability to generate volunteers for stuff, with people's willingness to think they are above the fray when it comes to sin. Lots n lots of stuff. I am an analytical person in my personal and professional life, and I was twisting myself in knots trying to understand it and eventually realized the only thing that made sense was that I didn't belong. Once I got to that point, I found peace and continued with the aspects of my faith that I believe supersede attendance.

Was it a charismatic church? The “pastor’s vision” thing sounds charismatic.

 

[Danuwoa]

I enjoyed the entire post, but wanted to single this comment out.......I think people excuse so much wrong in modern churches because they think the kids need something more than a small church is willing/able to provide. 100's of years of Christian children grew up in small congregations, and the faith perpetuated and thrived. Not because of the size of the building, but the message and the truth of the faith. Glad you found somewhere you belong. FWIW, my wife n kids are part of a smaller local church, the pastor of that church is a very good dude. The whole church came to my place to see my oldest daughter baptized in my pond (talk about a very cool moment, lotta history of baptisms in this pond too......my son had to be baptized in a local creek because at that time we didn't own a pond and weren't members of church, also very cool moment). They know they can call me for any help they need. They also know I ain't going on Sunday. I will feel like it's a "shame on me" moment if it went south from there.

You’re right. I don’t know why we decided we had to go somewhere bigger. We learned the hard way. I don’t know if you know who Jordan Peterson is but he has some insightful things to say about Christianity. He’s not a believer himself but sees it as a relevant and necessary part of society. He says a major reason for lagging church attendance is the push toward “inclusion”. Once you’ve proven you really don’t stand for anything, you’re done.

 

[JB0704]

The "cool history" of my pond is that it is older than any of the old folks around here......they all say it was here before they were born. I don't know of any records to identify when it was built. This used to be an agricultural community, with a lot of sharecroppers. There was once 4 such shacks on the small chunk of land I own. The one thing all the locals know about it is the churches those sharecroppers used to attend used my pond as their baptismal. It was pretty dang cool to continue that purpose when my daughter chose to get baptized.

 

[brutally honest]

Side note: when I tried to type “mega” above, the autocorrect changed it to “MAGA”.

I’m learning a lot about this board.

 

[NCHillbilly]

The "cool history" of my pond is that it is older than any of the old folks around here......they all say it was here before they were born. I don't know of any records to identify when it was built. This used to be an agricultural community, with a lot of sharecroppers. There was once 4 such shacks on the small chunk of land I own. The one thing all the locals know about it is the churches those sharecroppers used to attend used my pond as their baptismal. It was pretty dang cool to continue that purpose when my daughter chose to get baptized.

I was baptized as a small tyke in a good trout stream near my house. They about held me under until the bubbles stopped coming up. I bet the fish didn't bite in that hole for two days.

 

[JB0704]

Was it a charismatic church? The “pastor’s vision” thing sounds charismatic.

Depends on what we are calling charismatic. They were "baptist." However, they were all kinda contemporary, and eventually declared themselves non-denominational. But, their basic beliefs lined up with baptists. The "head pastor's vision" was just a new trend at that time.......the "church planters" loved the idea because it set them up to be blindly followed. The congregation loved being entertained on Sunday by the lights and the band and didn't give a darn what they were participating in because it made them feel warm and fuzzy. I just get twisted upstairs trying to make sense of things, and that eventually burned me out with the modern church and their approach to the faith. IT's almost like being part of something is more important than being something, if that makes sense?

 

[JB0704]

I was baptized as a small tyke in a good trout stream near my house. They about held me under until the bubbles stopped coming up. I bet the fish didn't bite in that hole for two days.

When Buzz said he would like to be baptized, we found a small waterfall that we didn't know existed (this is back when I lived in the suburbs), and a preacher friend did the honors. Small gathering of family and friends. It was about as sincere a spiritual moment as I can recall being part of. However, having the pond in the front yard which has served as a baptismal for who knows how long is also cool, and carrying on that tradition seems appropriate use of the blessing this place has been to my family.

 

[JB0704]

You’re right. I don’t know why we decided we had to go somewhere bigger. We learned the hard way. I don’t know if you know who Jordan Peterson is but he has some insightful things to say about Christianity. He’s not a believer himself but sees it as a relevant and necessary part of society. He says a major reason for lagging church attendance is the push toward “inclusion”. Once you’ve proven you really don’t stand for anything, you’re done.

I don't know who he is, but that last sentence is a dang good summary of my view on the topic even though I am a believer, and he is not.

 

[brutally honest]

I don't know who he is …

Dude, where have you been? He’s huge: best-selling book and just spent four hours on Joe Rogan’s podcast.

 

[Danuwoa]

I don't know who he is, but that last sentence is a dang good summary of my view on the topic even though I am a believer, and he is not.

Check him out. He was a guest on Rogan the other day and has been several times. I’ve been listening to his stuff for years. Seems like he’s on the verge of belief himself. His daughter is a believer. Had some real interesting things to say on Rogan the other day. Long episode though and not everybody has that kind of attention span I realize.

 

[brutally honest]

Check him out. He was a guest on Rogan the other day and has been several times. I’ve been listening to his stuff for years. Seems like he’s on the verge of belief himself. His daughter is a believer. Had some real interesting things to say on Rogan the other day. Long episode though and not everybody has that kind of attention span I realize.

He has about a million shorter videos on YouTube.

 

[Danuwoa]

He has about a million shorter videos on YouTube.

I know but the recent episode had some stuff particularly relevant to what we’re talking about.

 

[JB0704]

Dude, where have you been? He’s huge: best-selling book and just spent four hours on Joe Rogan’s podcast.

Ill look him up, specifically relevant to the topic at hand. I don't listen to podcasts. I do know who Joe Rogan is, but primarily because he was on Meat Eater a few times.

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

Mistrust is the spirit of our times for some reason-- even to the point of not trusting anything bigger than our own mule headedness. Everybody's into the act of being on the Jerry Springer stage it seems. Hard to say how long of a run it will have.

What would Jesus do? Did he trust men? John 2:24-25

 

[brutally honest]

What would Jesus do? Did he trust men? John 2:24-25

He trusted the 12 apostles … and the 70. He trusted Paul to carry His word to the Gentiles. In turn, Paul trusted Timothy to pass on what he had learned:

“And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.”

 

[gordon 2]

What would Jesus do? Did he trust men? John 2:24-25

Well if Jesus did not trust men, and he was one we are dupes who should not trust father or mother nor our honors to them, nor the brothers and sisters they have given us, nor the men and women present now and to our past who it is said could tell the difference between what is just as to liberty and captivity.

But if Jesus would have judged every man to be by God's purpose a dissenter to all things big and small, wide and narrow with the exception of himself and an individual and his own and by his own or in understanding responsible for his own security, than yes Jesus must of been a social paranoid and could not trust men. But I suggest that he was not this paranoid individual and did trust those who could hear the voice of his shepherding, or the counsels of the prophets to a people that knew to not be totally depraved.