MOA Guarantee?

[FlipKing]

Backfire did a solid, short review on MOA guarantees from gun companies and the normal expectations for factory hunting rifles. Worth a watch.

Personally I normally do 3 shot groups for my testing. If those are sub moa, it's good enough for me. I do like my accuracy though.

 

[HughW2]

FlipKing,
Thanks for posting! Some great points made.
I intend to watch this again. I am guilty of having unrealistically high expectations on accuracy. Interesting to see some manufacturers starting to call out customers trying to hold them to the fire on their moa guarantees. Great positive call outs for Bergara and Springfield.

 

[Bobby Bigtime]

On two occasions my late friend Darrell bought rifles off of guys at the range that were angry their guns were shooting 1.5 to 1.75 groups with factory ammo. They were both really nice rifles at great prices because "they didn't shoot very well". My favorite is when people say that their rifle will shoot .5 at 200 yards "all day long"

 

[Big7]

On two occasions my late friend Darrell bought rifles off of guys at the range that were angry their guns were shooting 1.5 to 1.75 groups with factory ammo. They were both really nice rifles at great prices because "they didn't shoot very well". My favorite is when people say that their rifle will shoot .5 at 200 yards "all day long"

Yep..

They either can't measure EOS or estimate 200 yards.

 

[rmp]

My favorite is when people say that their rifle will shoot .5 at 200 yards "all day long"

My favorite as well. Doesn’t even have to be some unreasonable claim. I suggest we go shoot right now, I was about to go anyway. Cue the excuses. “All day long” must mean on some other day.
It’s so funny to me because they state the terms and then fail to meet them.

 

[Ajohnson0587]

I own a few rifles that others claimed, "couldn't hit the broadside of a barn", with the right load I've got them shooting 1.5-2.00" groups at 100. Is that what I would consider "precision". Far from it, but for off the shelf rifles, it'll do! Especially, since I bought them for $200-$250

 

[Bobby Bigtime]

In this day and age with all the machinery advancements ,human error has been reduced dramatically. The Monday morning or Friday afternoon rifle really isn't a thing anymore. There are lots of spectacular rifles that can lay down(with a good marksman) impressive accuracy. Super rifles and super shooters are definitely out there. I am not one of them. When I shoot sub moa, I am very happy. The first expensive rifle I ever purchased was a Ruger #1 Sporter in 30-06. I had grand expectations of how it was going to drive tacks....it did not. No matter the load, shooter, optic etc.... It was a 3 inch gun on it's best day. I traded it for two rifles that both shot much better. The rifles today and optics are better than most shooters but one has to be realistic.

 

[Darkhorse]

have one rifle that will shoot 1 inch groups and under repeatably. This only applies if I shoot my handloads. The rifles are out there, the shooter not so much.
I always put it like this....Don't expect your rifle to shoot 1/2 groups if the best you can shoot is a 3 inch group.

 

[FlipKing]

If I can't shoot sub moa "more often than not" I normally get rid of the rifle. Especially depending on cost. I use an app to measure groups. I cheat and use 3 shot groups. I have extremely accurate rifles in a waypoint and a Ridgeline. I also have a Savage model 10 that won't shoot 1 hole, but it'll shoot almost any ammo pretty well.

I had a Ridgeline that wouldn't shoot hunting loads for groups...had.

I also had a Lupo that was ammo picky but I shot a few half moa groups with the right ammo....shouldn't have sold that one.

 

[mallardsx2]

MOA 1 shot groups at 100 yards. lol

 

[furtaker]

My favorite is when people say that their rifle will shoot .5 at 200 yards "all day long"

And add, "If I do my part"...

 

[HughW2]

I loved the point he makes about just because you have shot several three shot groups that were .75 MOA at 100 or 200 yards doesn’t mean you are ready to go out west and start slinging lead at elk at 500 yards. There are a lot of hunters that are writing checks they can’t cash.

 

[FlipKing]

I loved the point he makes about just because you have shot several three shot groups that were .75 MOA at 100 or 200 yards doesn’t mean you are ready to go out west and start slinging lead at elk at 500 yards. There are a lot of hunters that are writing checks they can’t cash.

I've shot out to 600. Getting first round hits at 500 and 600 is not an easy thing. With corrections, sure. But first round? Challenging.

 

[mallardsx2]

I loved the point he makes about just because you have shot several three shot groups that were .75 MOA at 100 or 200 yards doesn’t mean you are ready to go out west and start slinging lead at elk at 500 yards. There are a lot of hunters that are writing checks they can’t cash.

This is SUCH an accurate statement. People are wounding the heck out of the western game shooting at those long ranges.

 

[Bobby Bigtime]

This is SUCH an accurate statement. People are wounding the heck out of the western game shooting at those long ranges.

I've seen it here all my life mostly with antelope and big bucks and elk that are beyond their skill level but they shoot anyway. And there is always the issue with a good rest in the field also and excitement and on and on.

 

[Bobby Bigtime]

I believe there are a few folks on this forum with the skills and equipment to routinely punch tiny holes in targets pretty regularly.

 

[Lilly001]

Accuracy is relative to the circumstances.
Personally I sight in from a bench with a firm rest.
That puts the rifle in order as sighted to the profile I want (usually 1.5 “ high @100 yds) and ensures the rifle will do its job to its ability.
Then I practice mostly standing, unsupported. That gives me my worst case limit. In the field I always look for some kind of a rest.
I make my shoot/no shoot decisions on MY performance with the rifle not the rifles alone.
I seldom shoot , at game, over 200 yards unless all of the circumstances favor a hit.

 

[mallardsx2]

I believe the real reason people take those risky shots on western game is because they know it is going to potentially be YEARS before they draw again, and they take those marginal shots and hope for the best. Its ad but it's the truth in 90% of the situations.

 

[Lilly001]

I believe the real reason people take those risky shots on western game is because they know it is going to potentially be YEARS before they draw again, and they take those marginal shots and hope for the best. Its ad but it's the truth in 90% of the situations.

After expending the time and treasure required of most western hunts, and adding in that many are draw hunts that only come available rarely, it is understandable that a hunter might “push his limits”.
Here in Ga I would hope that a similar dynamic would not normally be in play. But we all know that it is.
All we can do is to encourage our circle of friends to be more realistic in their thoughts and practices.
Data like given by the OP help bring us all back to reality as to our, and our equipments, reasonable abilities.

 

[TJay]

Good video. I wonder how many rifles have been sold by accuracy "guarantees"?