So why do you think coyotes are the reason your not seeing any deer?

[Bob2010]

Yotes are a problem, but you can hunt them all year! They just don't show up at your club on opening day! They are there all year, so hunt them! Hogs showed up on our club this year in herds! We have had them over the years, afew here and there! We have killed 25 in 3 weeks! You can't kill them all, but you can make them not want to be there! We are still seeing big deer this year!

hunting them hard is my plan.

 

[Bob2010]

Predation is much like habitat, if you have a problem on your property then you manage it. Here is how you deal with coyotes:

1. Monitor fawn recruitment. Evenly distribute trail cameras across the property at the rate of one per 100 acres (1 per 150 on larger properties is sufficient). Between November and January, leave the cameras out for two weeks over corn. Tally up all the fawn occurrences and adult doe occurrences. Divide the fawns by the does to get your recruitment rate. Excellent recruitment would be 0.75 and up. Between 0.5 and 0.75, reduce your doe harvest or cut out doe harvest for one season. Below 0.5, reduce/eliminate doe harvest and consider removing some coyotes.

*If your doe harvest exceeds 1 doe per 150 acres, you are reducing your local population. Combine that with a predation issue and things go down hill fast.

2. Managing coyotes. If your recruitment is low, coyotes may be the primary issue or they may not. Habitat can also impact recruitment; monitoring deer health parameters, such as body weight and antler measurements by age class, should tell you if habitat is a problem. You can contact a State biologist for local data to compare yours with (this will also be available on the web within a few weeks). Once satisfied that habitat is not the primary issue, you should consider coyote removal. To improve fawn recruitment, coyotes must be trapped starting a few weeks before peak fawning and throughout fawning. Your local fawning dates are 6.5 months or ~200 days after peak rut ( www.georgiawildlife.com/rut-map ). Shooting or trapping coyotes earlier than this will have no impact on fawning. Unless you're an experienced trapper, you should hire a professional. An inexperienced trapper can educate coyotes so that even a professional may not be able to trap them that year. If you're learning to trap, do it in a season or on a property where coyotes aren't currently impacting fawn recruitment.

3. Continue to monitor fawn recruitment and collect biological data from the deer you kill. This not only tells you when you have a problem, but what the root cause of the problem is. State biologists are available to help you learn to collect these data, analyze data, and make recommendations on how to resolve issues with habitat, harvest, and predation. Also, don't overlook the negative impacts of hogs that out-compete deer for many of the same resources.

You are a man who knows alot more than me. Thank you and I am going to shoot you a pm.

 

[mauser64]

Coyotes, bobcats, cougars, wolves, bears etc. and deer have coexisted for tens of thousands of years if not longer. Not until man came on the scene in significant numbers did the problems start. If the deer herd in your area is not to your liking look in the mirror then do something about it. The resource can be managed and there are plenty of sources of information out there to help get it done.

Predation is much like habitat, if you have a problem on your property then you manage it. Here is how you deal with coyotes:

1. Monitor fawn recruitment. Evenly distribute trail cameras across the property at the rate of one per 100 acres (1 per 150 on larger properties is sufficient). Between November and January, leave the cameras out for two weeks over corn. Tally up all the fawn occurrences and adult doe occurrences. Divide the fawns by the does to get your recruitment rate. Excellent recruitment would be 0.75 and up. Between 0.5 and 0.75, reduce your doe harvest or cut out doe harvest for one season. Below 0.5, reduce/eliminate doe harvest and consider removing some coyotes.

*If your doe harvest exceeds 1 doe per 150 acres, you are reducing your local population. Combine that with a predation issue and things go down hill fast.

2. Managing coyotes. If your recruitment is low, coyotes may be the primary issue or they may not. Habitat can also impact recruitment; monitoring deer health parameters, such as body weight and antler measurements by age class, should tell you if habitat is a problem. You can contact a State biologist for local data to compare yours with (this will also be available on the web within a few weeks). Once satisfied that habitat is not the primary issue, you should consider coyote removal. To improve fawn recruitment, coyotes must be trapped starting a few weeks before peak fawning and throughout fawning. Your local fawning dates are 6.5 months or ~200 days after peak rut ( www.georgiawildlife.com/rut-map ). Shooting or trapping coyotes earlier than this will have no impact on fawning. Unless you're an experienced trapper, you should hire a professional. An inexperienced trapper can educate coyotes so that even a professional may not be able to trap them that year. If you're learning to trap, do it in a season or on a property where coyotes aren't currently impacting fawn recruitment.

3. Continue to monitor fawn recruitment and collect biological data from the deer you kill. This not only tells you when you have a problem, but what the root cause of the problem is. State biologists are available to help you learn to collect these data, analyze data, and make recommendations on how to resolve issues with habitat, harvest, and predation. Also, don't overlook the negative impacts of hogs that out-compete deer for many of the same resources.

I studied under Charlie Marshal and Dick Payne, their philosophy was to give plenty to eat, plenty of cover and shoot the you know what out of em. That was in the early 80's before the coyotes made their comeback but the point then as it is today was manage the resource as needed. Individual properties need individual plans. WE as hunters are responsible for taking care of what we have as best we can. WE can do it. It's for dang sure nobody is going to do it for us!

 

[Hammer Spank]

A biologist buddy of mine in Oglethorpe Cty killed 26 coyotes on a 2000 acre farm one winter. (Maybe 350 acres of that in woods). I watched deer with him in those soybean fields all summer. Dozens upon dozens on yearling bucks (those are bucks between 1 and 2 years old, not fawns) and most does had twins and many triplets. I do not believe for a single second that coyotes are a significant killer of deer in most areas of ga. I blame the reduction of deer on our "QDM" attitude in most of the state and bears in northeast GA.

Every property I've ever hunted had more coyotes 5 years ago than they do now and they also had more deer then as well. And I hunt extreme SW, SE, Central, NE, and NW Ga every single year.


Here's a great example: Blackbeard Island has some coyotes and they've had some for quite a while. At the same time, I've never ever seen a place with more deer psm than there.

Maybe we could consider Texas as well. Most coyotes of any state in the US and By Far the most deer as well.

 

[Strickland1984a]

Insurance companies making "donations" to DNR??? Don't think so! Pretty sure DNR has nothing to do with the number of tags issued. Better check with your local legislator. Think you'll find out they control length and date of seasoon and bag limit.

And how do you know. Your guess is as good as mine. Surely they hide it good enough so the public Dont know I'm not the first person to think that I know!!!!why then does dnr allow ten doe tags year after year .I know why they claim they do but does anybody on here actually think that every hunter should kill ten does year after year with the herd already low and the coyote problem some of the state has

 

[snookdoctor]

16 hours last weekend with my 7 year old in my best shooting houses. He worked his tail off to shoot his new .243 accurately. Kept a good attitude and took great joy in his 8 year old buddy across the highway shot 2 and saw more every hunt. Smiled and never complained. These are stands that 5 years ago I would put a amigo from work up in. I had to only give them 2 bullets to guarantee they shot no more then 2 the first Time deer hunting. I have a serious mental issue with this. If I had a mental issue with it 2 years ago when I started noticing the issue the yotes would be on someone else's land right now instead of mine.

It is called "hunting" for a reason. The main reason you don't see deer on any particular hunt is because they are somewhere else....not because the coyotes have killed them all. You can't be in the right place at the right time every time you go to the woods. Now, you start blaming big feets, or black panthers for the lack of deer and I might start believing it.

 

[NCHillbilly]

And how do you know. Your guess is as good as mine. Surely they hide it good enough so the public Dont know I'm not the first person to think that I know!!!!why then does dnr allow ten doe tags year after year .I know why they claim they do but does anybody on here actually think that every hunter should kill ten does year after year with the herd already low and the coyote problem some of the state has

If the limit was only two does, it would still be a problem if everybody killed two on most hunting properties in the state. Hunters educating themselves about doe kills and how they relate to deer densities would be much more effective than all the predator control in the world. Folks need to look up deer densities per square mile and see how many does you can kill without lowering your numbers, then don't kill those does if you are below the normal density level. Put you a spike or a forkhorn in the freezer and let that doe walk. The majority of hunters in a county doing that will do more to increase deer numbers than killing tens of thousands of coyotes. The sacred young buck is killing the deer herd.

I think restricting doe days is more effective than lowering limits myself. Three hunters on 200 acres, each killing one doe every year, will lower the population, especially if you factor in other mortality causes. On the other hand, some areas are overpopulated with deer and need lots of does thinned out, which is where the high doe limit comes into play. Again, the problem isn't the number of doe "tags," it's the number of times folks pull the trigger. Almost no one kills ten does, but many kill way too many off these small leases that are the norm in the state.

 

[Nicodemus]

Just 3 little things...



Common sense.

Trigger control.

Knowledge of your land and what game you have on it, then use good judgement.



If everyone did this, there wouldn`t be near the problems.

 

[C.Killmaster]

why then does dnr allow ten doe tags year after year

Because it's written in state law and DNR is required to follow state law.

O.C.G.A. § 27-3-15

The daily limit shall be ten antlerless deer and two antlered bucks. The season limit shall be ten antlerless deer and two antlered bucks. Only one antlered buck may have less than four points one inch or longer on one side of the antlers. Up to two deer per managed hunt may be allowed without complying with the state-wide bag limit.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Just 3 little things...



Common sense.

Trigger control.

Knowledge of your land and what game you have on it, then use good judgement.



If everyone did this, there wouldn`t be near the problems.

That is exactly what I was trying to say in a lot less words.

 

[Duff]

What I don't understand is if all your deer are gone and your neighbors still have plenty of deer why haven't the coyotes moved to their land? What is the food source holding the coyotes on your property?

This^^^^^

Not being judgemental at all. Bob, I'm sure you know your land and game that calls it home more than anyone. Why do you think there are so many yotes on your property if the deer numbers are down so much? Why wouldn't they follow the food to others properties?

I'm not questioning you at all. Just wondered what your opinion is.

 

[grouper throat]

Hunting them is not the most efficient way. Ask a trapper on your place. When they trapped for the fox pens here they would nearly wipe out the yote population in less than a month on 4-5,000 acres.

On an unrelated note, I love the "coyotes are to blame" threads yet later on it comes out the folks still shoot does... lol

 

[Bob2010]

It is called "hunting" for a reason. The main reason you don't see deer on any particular hunt is because they are somewhere else....not because the coyotes have killed them all. You can't be in the right place at the right time every time you go to the woods. Now, you start blaming big feets, or black panthers for the lack of deer and I might start believing it.

I know the deer are still around. They are not on my land though. There is no reason they wouldn't be on our land. It has every resource the deer want as well as a 10 year history of holding alot of deer. The deer are not in our mile long creek bottom full of oaks, thickets, or food plots. Very few compared to normal. First 2 weekends were a bust and that is unusual for our land. The deer were moving and weather was great. Yotes have not killed all of our deer. They have killed a bunch and ran the rest to other properties.

 

[JB0704]

Put you a spike or a forkhorn in the freezer and let that doe walk.....The sacred young buck is killing the deer herd.

Yep. There are plenty of combinations that can get a person to the "3 for the freezer" mark. It doesn't have to be 3 does. You can have deer and eat 'em too, but you gotta be willing to shoot a button head from time to time.

 

[Bob2010]

This^^^^^

Not being judgemental at all. Bob, I'm sure you know your land and game that calls it home more than anyone. Why do you think there are so many yotes on your property if the deer numbers are down so much? Why wouldn't they follow the food to others properties?

I'm not questioning you at all. Just wondered what your opinion is.

I see a lot yotes, scat, tracks, and I hear them every night. 2 large packs sound off nightly. I shot 3 last deer season while hunting and had 1 about jump in my lap turkey season coming to my putting. This land is a dream property to me. Only 3 members and everything is right for deer. I've had leases in the past that were ok. This place has oaks, several phases of cut over, plots, persimmons, creeks, cover, and river bottoms. My freind has 400 acres across the hwy. I hunted with him on his place 20 years ago. He has 30 acres of plots and we'll over 300 fruit trees planted now. The last 3 years they couldn't see deer to save their life. He considered selling after 30 years of management to get away from yotes. They put a coyote program in place and this year they are seeing 3 or 4 deer every time out. That was the norm for us as well for years. The pressure he has applied have pushed these 2 large packs to new areas. I see them this year alot and hear them. I hear them across a 1000 acre area at night now. I think they hit me hard and now are roaming to the neighboring lands. My freind said he had 2 years of what I am dealing with now. I don't think all the deer are dead. I think they have a home area that the deer avoid. They hunt a larger area but will leave a few hundred home acres devistated. I know yotes will hunt my land and that has never killed my deer population. I want home area to move somewhere else. I'm not a coyote expert but if they shut down my friends deer for 2 years it seems it's our turn. It used to be one pack with a stragglers or 2. The 2 packs now sound like a lot more in each group and they are farther apart when howling.

 

[elfiii]

Because it's written in state law and DNR is required to follow state law.

O.C.G.A. § 27-3-15

The daily limit shall be ten antlerless deer and two antlered bucks. The season limit shall be ten antlerless deer and two antlered bucks. Only one antlered buck may have less than four points one inch or longer on one side of the antlers. Up to two deer per managed hunt may be allowed without complying with the state-wide bag limit.

"Facts are stubborn things." - Adams, John - Attorney, Patriot, Second President of the United States

 

[Dbender]

I wonder why mine get along so well together?

 

[Bob2010]

Hunting them is not the most efficient way. Ask a trapper on your place. When they trapped for the fox pens here they would nearly wipe out the yote population in less than a month on 4-5,000 acres.

On an unrelated note, I love the "coyotes are to blame" threads yet later on it comes out the folks still shoot does... lol

We used to have Qdma come out for land owner meetings. Doe to buck ratio was off. Kill every doe they said. That was years ago when we saw 5 to 10 deer every hunt. Before yotes and hogs were a big issue. If I was just a antler guy my ratio is now correct. Rut will produce chasing bucks because there are fewer does. This ongoing rut cycle into January leave our fawns dropping over several weeks like a ongoing buffet for yotes. People say up north yotes and deer live in harmony and have for years. It's not the same here. Hard winters mean deer rut for a few weeks then prepare for winter. Yotes have a few weeks to kill what they can up north. Here fawns drop for 2 or 3 months.

 

[Atpruitt89]

Growing Deer TV on youtube had a really good series on trapping programs you can implement on your property to lower the predator population. Im going to start trapping yotes this spring too. I still see pleny of deer but hey, cant hurt!

 

[Nicodemus]

I wonder why mine get along so well together?

More than once, I`ve watched out my front door in the field across the road as deer feed while a coyote worked the same filed for cotton rats and mice. Deer paid the coyote no mind. I`m in the our woods and swamps a lot, especially in turkey season. I almost never see any sign of deer kills.

Truth be known, coyotes probably help out ground nesting birds by killing and eating some of those predators that specialize in eggs.