The "empty tomb" that all Christianity revolves around? The plot thickens!

[1gr8buildit]

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/****-bible-verses/

That link would not pull up for me. just so you know, I don't believe in he11 for non believers. I believe it to be for those whom were deceived by the antichrist, the imposter christ. I don't believe Jesus ever spoke of the hot place in the context that it is used today.

 

[1gr8buildit]

Would not let me respond. The leter count was to high to reply...

Here is my response.... I enjoy reading this type of literature. You can see what it is they believed. Was glad to see the source seemed neutral. My opinion is that they are discussing the exact way we are. Looking at the writings that we now call the NT and possibly some more. When they refer to the earth quakes, for example. I don't believe them to be in knowledge of this except through the writing we now have. What I see is the same thing we are doing now, just waaaay back then. The fact that they are writing about it shows it was in question then. Being a believer, I find it interesting, yet it does not change my faith. It will always be a hard sell. Actually, I don't like that terminology. I don't try to sell it.

 

[oldfella1962]

That link would not pull up for me. just so you know, I don't believe in he11 for non believers. I believe it to be for those whom were deceived by the antichrist, the imposter christ. I don't believe Jesus ever spoke of the hot place in the context that it is used today.

Interesting opinion! If I'm getting this right, skeptics AKA "non-believers" don't go to Hotterville (like Hooterville but it's hot! Get it?) but the people who are "believers" but just picked the fake Jesus instead of the real Jesus do go to Hotterville!
What a twist!

 

[1gr8buildit]

Interesting opinion! If I'm getting this right, skeptics AKA "non-believers" don't go to Hotterville (like Hooterville but it's hot! Get it?) but the people who are "believers" but just picked the fake Jesus instead of the real Jesus do go to Hotterville!
What a twist!

Yep, you likely will not find that view anywhere but right here. Little ole me, all alone

 

[Spotlite]

You honestly don't think that a significant percentage of people become Christians (or remain Christians if they brought up in a Christian family) because of the fear of the hot place? I know the percentage is dropping from what it used to be, but then a lot of church doctrines are changing along with society in general. But I would think that fear is still present, just buried way, way back in people's subconscious. Then again, I'm not a trained psychologist or psychiatrist.

Yes, I love my wife for who she is. As for divorcing me, if you are ready to assume payments, she can be yours TODAY! Just kidding folks!

I never said they might not come. The issue is it don’t retain them. It’s not enough to keep them there long. Lol I have one wife, she’s expensive enough!!!

 

[Spotlite]

@Spotlite

Do you have any rabbits available right now? I’m thinking about getting a couple for my kids again. Thanks!

I do. I’ll send you a pm.

 

[buckpasser]

I do. I’ll send you a pm.

Thanks!

 

[Artfuldodger]

That’s another way to look at it. But you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone in this because of that. If that’s what brings them in, they usually last less than 6 months. So, being in this and witnessing that - I don’t buy it that it’s happening with the ability to retain.

Do you love your wife for who and what she is to you or do you only do it so she won’t divorce you?

I asked that question on one of the Christian forums and a few said they didn't see the point of Christianity without a belief in He11. That salvation was escaping from that place. Therefore they would not believe in Jesus or be a Christian if there was not a He11.

I guess their belief was more fear motivated than love. Plus on this forum many Christians say, well I'm not gonna take that chance, why are ya'll willing to do that? If I were ya'll I'd believe for that reason.
So it stands to reason that is why many on this forum see it as a fear motivated reason.

 

[Spotlite]

That link would not pull up for me. just so you know, I don't believe in he11 for non believers. I believe it to be for those whom were deceived by the antichrist, the imposter christ. I don't believe Jesus ever spoke of the hot place in the context that it is used today.

Numerous passages where Jesus spoke of the hot places.

If it’s not for non believers what do you with this;

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be dumbed.”

Believeth not = non belief. Where / what is “dumb nation” referred to in multiple places?

I had to change the spelling due to the censorship but you get my drift. Admin / Mod if that’s considered typing around the censor, I apologize and please delete.

 

[Spotlite]

I asked that question on one of the Christian forums and a few said they didn't see the point of Christianity without a belief in He11. That salvation was escaping from that place. Therefore they would not believe in Jesus or be a Christian if there was not a He11.

I guess their belief was more fear motivated than love. Plus on this forum many Christians say, well I'm not gonna take that chance, why are ya'll willing to do that? If I were ya'll I'd believe for that reason.
So it stands to reason that is why many on this page see it as a fear motivated reason.

Go back in two years and see if they’re still there. I believe it’s an attraction, but I haven’t see it have the ability to keep them.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Numerous passages where Jesus spoke of the hot places.

If it’s not for non believers what do you with this;

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be dumbed.”

Believeth not = non belief. Where / what is “dumb nation” referred to in multiple places?

I had to change the spelling due to the censorship but you get my drift. Admin / Mod if that’s considered typing around the censor, I apologize and please delete.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die."
"The wages of sin is death."
"The day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."
"But all sinners will be destroyed; there will be no future for the wicked."
"He who does not have the Son of God does not have life."

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in he11.
("apollumi" means to perish, be destroyed, kill or caused to die.)

He11 does exist but if you are bad, you die when you die. Believers gain eternal life.

 

[j_seph]

I am almost certain that it was you and I in this similar conversation the last time.

Well it has always been said you got to stand for something. Just goes to show that you and I can stand for something, even though it is totally opposite we are still standing.

 

[bullethead]

Well it has always been said you got to stand for something. Just goes to show that you and I can stand for something, even though it is totally opposite we are still standing.

While I can appreciate what you're saying I just cannot comprehend why someone would continually use the examples you keep using even after they have been shown to be incorrect, later additions and forgeries that are recognized to be as such by theological scholars and officials.
It is best to stand on solid ground and not quicksand.

 

[oldfella1962]

I asked that question on one of the Christian forums and a few said they didn't see the point of Christianity without a belief in He11. That salvation was escaping from that place. Therefore they would not believe in Jesus or be a Christian if there was not a He11.

I guess their belief was more fear motivated than love. Plus on this forum many Christians say, well I'm not gonna take that chance, why are ya'll willing to do that? If I were ya'll I'd believe for that reason.
So it stands to reason that is why many on this forum see it as a fear motivated reason.

Thanks for your input! And I don't want to assume, but if many believers on this forum (in the Christian thread you mentioned) see Hotterville as a strong motivation, other Christians across the nation do also.

That said, I remember from way back in the day - when I attended church because it meant something to my wife - a woman saying to the congregation something like "even if there was no heaven, the Christian life would still be worth it".
There is a saying I think "virtue is its own reward".

 

[j_seph]

While I can appreciate what you're saying I just cannot comprehend why someone would continually use the examples you keep using even after they have been shown to be incorrect, later additions and forgeries that are recognized to be as such by theological scholars and officials.
It is best to stand on solid ground and not quicksand.

I just soon build mine on the Rock ;-)

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[Spotlite]

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die."
"The wages of sin is death."
"The day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."
"But all sinners will be destroyed; there will be no future for the wicked."
"He who does not have the Son of God does not have life."

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in he11.
("apollumi" means to perish, be destroyed, kill or caused to die.)

He11 does exist but if you are bad, you die when you die. Believers gain eternal life.

Read Matthew 10:28 again.

Where is the soul destroyed? Don’t forget, there are numerous scriptures pertaining to where the unjust go.

 

[oldfella1962]

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die."
"The wages of sin is death."
"The day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."
"But all sinners will be destroyed; there will be no future for the wicked."
"He who does not have the Son of God does not have life."

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in he11.
("apollumi" means to perish, be destroyed, kill or caused to die.)

He11 does exist but if you are bad, you die when you die. Believers gain eternal life.

If your interpretation is correct, then IMHO this is fair & just.
If you're a bad boy, you don't get to go to the eternal party! You become worm dirt and your consciousness dies with you. There's no sense to sending Hitler to the same place as people who just have a difference in opinion on religion but are otherwise fine upstanding citizens.

Sidenote I have heard quite a few believers (not on GON forum) say that atheism is just an excuse to sin all you want with no accountability!
Yep, you got me pegged, Cletus! I can't put anything past you.
If that isn't "an argument from ignorance" I don't know what is.

 

[bullethead]

I just soon build mine on the Rock ;-)

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

All that hallmark stuff doesn't change the fact that the examples you continue to use as evidence for Jesus outside of the Bible have been shown to be wrong, later additions, forgeries or at the very least someone repeating something that they've heard without being witness themselves. The words used in some don't even mean Christ, they are just close enough that it sounds good so people buy it.
You know better but use it to further an agenda rather than admit the truth.
If that is the rock you so choose, so be it.

 

[oldfella1962]

While I can appreciate what you're saying I just cannot comprehend why someone would continually use the examples you keep using even after they have been shown to be incorrect, later additions and forgeries that are recognized to be as such by theological scholars and officials.
It is best to stand on solid ground and not quicksand.

I see your point, but I also see two people that are just standing by their convictions. The two basic worldviews (science versus faith) have two different "operating systems" to relate it to computer terms. Science operates on quicksand (but in a good way)! Allow me to explain my reasoning:

science is based on a constantly changing "truth" depending on the addition of new data and knowledge that is peer reviewed and evaluated. Science needs to have their beliefs challenged, because that's the only way to discard what turns out to be inadequate or obsolete truth. It has a goal that can never be reached until our species is gone. Religion - Christianity to be specific - has its entire canon set in stone (literally with the 10 Commandments) and cannot change. All Christians can do is reinterpret what has already been written for many centuries. God isn't giving Christianity any more information or revising current information. Christian scholars, apologetics, clergy and laymen alike have no offense, only defense in sporting terminology. Christianity - or any religion - can never be proved and the odds of proving it diminish every day as science advances.

Bottom line it does seem frustrating - bordering on unbelievable - how Christians cannot - or refuse to - admit when an aspect of their belief has been proven wrong.
But in their defense, their belief is all they have. If I have misread or offended any believers that's not my intention, this is just my 2 cents on how I see science versus religion playing out.

 

[oldfella1962]

I just soon build mine on the Rock ;-)

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

HOWEVER (not to be a smarty pants or anything) if God goes Old Testament and floods the world again, your house can be built on that GIANT rock in Australia and you are still toast!