The "empty tomb" that all Christianity revolves around? The plot thickens!

[oldfella1962]

The discussion should focus on "destroy" or eternal torment. If you look into it, you will quickly see the ambigious nature of the verses that the modern day church applies this theology. As a matter of fact, it should not even be referred to as ambigious. The verses in no way point to anything other than destruction.. The bible contrast eternal life against death. Eternal death would mean irreversible. Not death for ever and ever as if in some conscience state. Once you look at the greek words and apply what the writer was conveying, not the church of today, it becomes clear that this is a modern day invention. And it becomes apparent, once seen, that the fight for it reveals that Christians want it. But just as the eternal fallen angels, whom are eternal, what is God to do with them, since they are eternal? How about Christians whom have been deceived by the antichrist? They have fallen for the identity thief of an imposter posing as Christ after having been given eternal life? They have become one with him. There is wrath ahead for these. I hope it's not their version of he11. See rev 14-9 + for whom he11 is for. All else will be destroyed in the fire. The context of Rev is punishment for... the ones taking the mark, the prostitute, Babaylon. All one in the same. No context for unbelievers here.

I don't see why falling for the tricks of a fake Jesus would be "becoming one" with the fake Jesus. I guess the question would be would only believers be tricked by the fake Jesus, or would an unbeliever also be tricked by the fake Jesus? Why are the believers expected to be able to tell it's the fake Jesus but not the non-believers? Obviously, the fake Jesus must be a very talented trickster!

That said IMHO the Greek words concerning death, Hotterville, destruction, etc. would be the most accurate when it comes to interpreting the New Testament. Hebrew would apply for the Old Testament. This would more closely match the timeframe of when they were written.

Also, the Jews don't even believe in Hotterville as described by Christianity. Their religion doesn't focus much on an afterlife. So Hebrew - in which context completely changes almost everything they write - wouldn't work as well regarding the concept at all.

 

[1gr8buildit]

I don't see why falling for the tricks of a fake Jesus would be "becoming one" with the fake Jesus. I guess the question would be would only believers be tricked by the fake Jesus, or would an unbeliever also be tricked by the fake Jesus? Why are the believers expected to be able to tell it's the fake Jesus but not the non-believers? Obviously, the fake Jesus must be a very talented trickster!

That said IMHO the Greek words concerning death, Hotterville, destruction, etc. would be the most accurate when it comes to interpreting the New Testament. Hebrew would apply for the Old Testament. This would more closely match the timeframe of when they were written.

Also, the Jews don't even believe in Hotterville as described by Christianity. Their religion doesn't focus much on an afterlife. So Hebrew - in which context completely changes almost everything they write - wouldn't work as well regarding the concept at all.

It's an analogy of the church being the bride that was stolen while Jesus is away. She is referred to as a prostitute, harlot, etc. Whether you see how it fits or not, this is the context written. I like to look at it from Erhman's perspective. He does not approach it as if he believes it or not. He just discusses what is written

 

[1gr8buildit]

I don't see why falling for the tricks of a fake Jesus would be "becoming one" with the fake Jesus. I guess the question would be would only believers be tricked by the fake Jesus, or would an unbeliever also be tricked by the fake Jesus? Why are the believers expected to be able to tell it's the fake Jesus but not the non-believers? Obviously, the fake Jesus must be a very talented trickster!

That said IMHO the Greek words concerning death, Hotterville, destruction, etc. would be the most accurate when it comes to interpreting the New Testament. Hebrew would apply for the Old Testament. This would more closely match the timeframe of when they were written.

Also, the Jews don't even believe in Hotterville as described by Christianity. Their religion doesn't focus much on an afterlife. So Hebrew - in which context completely changes almost everything they write - wouldn't work as well regarding the concept at all.

I actually don't believe it to be a real antichrist... but rather a belief. A denomination. I will refrain from going into detail on that one but believe the mark is a baptism

 

[oldfella1962]

Man, there is lot of symbolism & hidden meanings in the Bible. It's fiction to me, which is a good thing, because if I thought it was a guide to living and God's way of communicating, I would be pretty disappointed to say the least.

 

[Spotlite]

I actually don't believe it to be a real antichrist... but rather a belief. A denomination. I will refrain from going into detail on that one but believe the mark is a baptism

Out of curiosity - how do you conclude it may be a baptism?

 

[oldfella1962]

Out of curiosity - how do you conclude it may be a baptism?

Good question! How would a baptism leave a visible mark? Unless the baptism pool had sharks with laser beams!

 

[Spotlite]

Good question! How would a baptism leave a visible mark? Unless the baptism pool had sharks with laser beams!

Yea unless I’m missing something it’s pretty clearly written “to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:”

I’m not sure how whatever the language that was translated meant mark, hand, and forehead everywhere else but here it means baptism??

Im not knocking it - I just don’t follow.

 

[1gr8buildit]

Out of curiosity - how do you conclude it may be a baptism?

We have to think in terms of how, in the writers time period, how they understood things... Not in ours. Ephesians 1:13, Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal.....referring to the Holy Spirit. But, clearly referencing an assumed belief. Belief, marked and seal could be linked together. My opinion is that this is an assumed thought of that time period and Paul is making a parallel analogy referring to believers and the Holy Spirit. For instance, some or most Christians are baptized into the triune formula. That would be their mark.

 

[1gr8buildit]

We have to think in terms of how, in the writers time period, how they understood things... Not in ours. Ephesians 1:13, Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal.....referring to the Holy Spirit. But, clearly referencing an assumed belief. Belief, marked and seal could be linked together. My opinion is that this is an assumed thought of that time period and Paul is making a parallel analogy referring to believers and the Holy Spirit. For instance, some or most Christians are baptized into the triune formula. That would be their mark.

Also see Rev 14-1 to see another supportive verse. The lamb... 144000 with him {jesus} whom had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads

 

[Spotlite]

We have to think in terms of how, in the writers time period, how they understood things... Not in ours. Ephesians 1:13, Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal.....referring to the Holy Spirit. But, clearly referencing an assumed belief. Belief, marked and seal could be linked together. My opinion is that this is an assumed thought of that time period and Paul is making a parallel analogy referring to believers and the Holy Spirit. For instance, some or most Christians are baptized into the triune formula. That would be their mark.

Ok those are good points. Well worth my time digging into to that view.

 

[1gr8buildit]

Do you mean at all the difference between some understanding of "hidden with Christ in God" as a work of the Holy Spirit...as opposed to say some perception or iteration of a stylized Cerberus?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question

 

[oldfella1962]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question

I don't even understand the language! You guys are lightyears ahead of my knowledge of any & all things Biblical!