Where is god?

[kmh1031]

I have similar questions and I get plenty of answers - but few of the answers make sense to me. The answers I get are best described by the picture below.

View attachment 1256821

Outstanding questions surfaced here… !
And millions have asked that everyday after seeing the many issues man deals with daily

But god is not the cause of suffering or trials.. Note: James 1:13
“When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone”.
So who or what is to blame?
And what is the solution?
Note this short video that may provide an answer:

https://www.jw.org/open?docid=502018850&prefer=lang&wtlocale=E

 

[oldfella1962]

Outstanding questions surfaced here… !
And millions have asked that everyday after seeing the many issues man deals with daily

But god is not the cause of suffering or trials.. Note: James 1:13
“When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone”.
So who or what is to blame?
And what is the solution?
Note this short video that may provide an answer:

https://www.jw.org/open?docid=502018850&prefer=lang&wtlocale=E

No, the video presupposes that a god (Biblical or Watchtower since Jehovah Witnesses) exists in the first place. My power cord plugged into itself represents the ineffective "circular reasoning" of using the Bible to prove Biblical claims. It applies to using any holy scriptures to prove the veracity of their claims.
I'm not concerned with why any god causes suffering/harm/pain etc. as much as questioning the thought processes and psychology of people believing in supernatural claims in general. It's fascinating!

 

[660griz]

“God does not play an active role in human lives.” Then why pray for healing? If you go to church, you hear about all the wonderful things that god has done. But when it’s something bad, like cancer, god didn’t do it, yet he’s omnipotent and controls everything. A hurricane can destroy lives and property but prayer makes it better. If god is in control, why did he create the hurricane?

To the believers, I’m not trying to poke fun or agitate, these are the things about religion that I don’t understand and to which I have never gotten an answer.

By praying for something to change, isn't that a way of saying, "God, you messed up." Trying to change God's plan? However, for some instances, if you believe prayer works, it will. Placebo effect. If folks REALLY believe, why prolong the chance to go to heaven?

 

[WaltL1]

Outstanding questions surfaced here… !
And millions have asked that everyday after seeing the many issues man deals with daily

But god is not the cause of suffering or trials.. Note: James 1:13
“When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone”.
So who or what is to blame?
And what is the solution?
Note this short video that may provide an answer:

https://www.jw.org/open?docid=502018850&prefer=lang&wtlocale=E

I love how at the end its a beautiful little scene of a family by a babbling brook. So calm and serene and filled with love. And the commentary?
"Only people who choose to follow God's standards will inhabit the earth"

I guess the bloating, rotting carcasses of women and children and old folks drifting with the waves wouldnt have painted a very serene picture

 

[oldfella1962]

I love how at the end its a beautiful little scene of a family by a babbling brook. So calm and serene and filled with love. And the commentary?
"Only people who choose to follow God's standards will inhabit the earth"

I guess the bloating, rotting carcasses of women and children and old folks drifting with the waves wouldnt have painted a very serene picture

"Eggs and omelets" as they say!

 

[WaltL1]

Outstanding questions surfaced here… !
And millions have asked that everyday after seeing the many issues man deals with daily

But god is not the cause of suffering or trials.. Note: James 1:13
“When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone”.
So who or what is to blame?
And what is the solution?
Note this short video that may provide an answer:

https://www.jw.org/open?docid=502018850&prefer=lang&wtlocale=E

“When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone”.

So who or what IS making the decision who gets the golden ticket to go upstairs? And how does that decision get made other than through judgement, in other words, a trial?
What makes the gate narrow? If nobody was on trial there wouldnt even be a gate.
Somebody besides God making those decisions according to Christian beliefs?

 

[oldfella1962]

So who or what IS making the decision who gets the golden ticket to go upstairs? And how does that decision get made other than through judgement, in other words, a trial?
What makes the gate narrow? If nobody was on trial there wouldnt even be a gate.
Somebody besides God making those decisions according to Christian beliefs?

Interesting - who is God working for/with?

 

[bullethead]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710100633234071775

This is what Carl Sagan said about the photo:

"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor, and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every 'superstar,' every 'supreme leader,' every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there — on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.”

 

[oldfella1962]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710100633234071775

This is what Carl Sagan said about the photo:

"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor, and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every 'superstar,' every 'supreme leader,' every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there — on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.”

Carl Sagan was the real deal. Whip smart and a terrific & humble human being. The very definition of a "class act". And he is right! There is no cavalry coming to save us from ourselves. Our pale blue dot is self-contained needing no extra ingredients - just add water and shake!

Sidenote: nearly every species on this planet puts the survival of their species ahead of the survival of a different species. It's "us versus them" in a nutshell. For highly complex social species it's more refined - it's "our pack/tribe versus them." It's just the way life evolved on this planet.

When you think about it, one of the main functions (there are many functions) of religion in general is to be an ultimate "us versus them" for our tribe. But instead of us versus them for actual resources like food, water, energy, security and other tangible things that help ensure the survival of our tribe, religions fight over their BELIEFS!
Humans kill humans over what cannot be proven to even exist. We kill humans just for worshipping a different "god" and in many cases it's the SAME ABRAHAMIC GOD! In the 1500's in France Protestants & Catholics fought each other for 36 years killing up to 3,000,000 people by some estimates. My point is no matter what the concept of religion in general started out to be tens of thousands - (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of years ago - some religions (Christianity being just one of them) ended up being very powerful self-serving political tools.

Can religion comfort good, honest people in their time of need? You better believe it! Can religion explain "the unexplainable" that science doesn't have an answer for? For the followers of that religion at least, you better believe it! Can religion be a form of unquestioned authority that functions as an effective tool to unite a tribe "us" to kill another tribe "them" despite the best interests of both "us" AND "them"? Yes, and we have proof of this happening over & over! And if we aren't literally killing each other, we are still dividing each other. The evidence for my claim?
Here in the good old USA - the greatest country on the planet - we have Republicans & Democrats/Conservatives & Liberals using religion as a tool to strengthen and validate their own political positions and weaken & invalidate their political opponents' positions.

Humans went from looking up at the night sky and thinking "what is this all about"? to "MY god - not your god - is what it's all about, and we better toe the line!"

Atheists have decided to opt out of this general belief system* - and its many sub-contracted belief systems - yet atheism is despised and/or misunderstood by the majority of the planet.

* in some countries (yes even Christian countries) atheism is punishable by death! Some (not all) Christians claim that "nobody would die for what they know is true" concerning the stories of Christians being given the chance to recant, but choosing torture & execution instead. What would they think of atheists being oppressed & dying for what they know is true? Something to think about anyway.

 

[bullethead]

Carl Sagan was the real deal. Whip smart and a terrific & humble human being. The very definition of a "class act". And he is right! There is no cavalry coming to save us from ourselves. Our pale blue dot is self-contained needing no extra ingredients - just add water and shake!

Sidenote: nearly every species on this planet puts the survival of their species ahead of the survival of a different species. It's "us versus them" in a nutshell. For highly complex social species it's more refined - it's "our pack/tribe versus them." It's just the way life evolved on this planet.

When you think about it, one of the main functions (there are many functions) of religion in general is to be an ultimate "us versus them" for our tribe. But instead of us versus them for actual resources like food, water, energy, security and other tangible things that help ensure the survival of our tribe, religions fight over their BELIEFS!
Humans kill humans over what cannot be proven to even exist. We kill humans just for worshipping a different "god" and in many cases it's the SAME ABRAHAMIC GOD! In the 1500's in France Protestants & Catholics fought each other for 36 years killing up to 3,000,000 people by some estimates. My point is no matter what the concept of religion in general started out to be tens of thousands - (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of years ago - some religions (Christianity being just one of them) ended up being very powerful self-serving political tools.

Can religion comfort good, honest people in their time of need? You better believe it! Can religion explain "the unexplainable" that science doesn't have an answer for? For the followers of that religion at least, you better believe it! Can religion be a form of unquestioned authority that functions as an effective tool to unite a tribe "us" to kill another tribe "them" despite the best interests of both "us" AND "them"? Yes, and we have proof of this happening over & over! And if we aren't literally killing each other, we are still dividing each other. The evidence for my claim?
Here in the good old USA - the greatest country on the planet - we have Republicans & Democrats/Conservatives & Liberals using religion as a tool to strengthen and validate their own political positions and weaken & invalidate their political opponents' positions.

Humans went from looking up at the night sky and thinking "what is this all about"? to "MY god - not your god - is what it's all about, and we better toe the line!"

Atheists have decided to opt out of this general belief system* - and its many sub-contracted belief systems - yet atheism is despised and/or misunderstood by the majority of the planet.

* in some countries (yes even Christian countries) atheism is punishable by death! Some (not all) Christians claim that "nobody would die for what they know is true" concerning the stories of Christians being given the chance to recant, but choosing torture & execution instead. What would they think of atheists being oppressed & dying for what they know is true? Something to think about anyway.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1709992638072447354

 

[oldfella1962]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1709992638072447354

Ricky is right - there is no formalized dogma or canon for not believing in something. Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby!

 

[bullethead]

Ricky is right - there is no formalized dogma or canon for not believing in something. Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby!

His analogy about destroying Religious information vs Destroying Science information and where they each will be in 1000yrs was excellent.

 

[WaltL1]

His analogy about destroying Religious information vs Destroying Science information and where they each will be in 1000yrs was excellent.

It was a good analogy. But definitely debatable. If we go back 1,000 years from now, how much of that "science" is the same?
It would be really interesting to know what "science" from this era would be exactly the same 1,000 years from now and what science gets completely flipped on its head.

 

[WaltL1]

Ricky is right - there is no formalized dogma or canon for not believing in something. Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby!

Thats ^ a good one. I gotta remember that

 

[bullethead]

It was a good analogy. But definitely debatable. If we go back 1,000 years from now, how much of that "science" is the same?
It would be really interesting to know what "science" from this era would be exactly the same 1,000 years from now and what science gets completely flipped on its head.

E=MC2 will still be the same. The Speed of Light will still be 186,000 mph. The constants remain constant. It's just a matter of the time it would take to refigure them out.
It is similar to the remote island scenario.
Coconuts will still fall down no matter if you've never heard of gravity, someone will eventually figure out how fast the earth is spinning and that the planets revolve around the Sun, how long it takes etc etc etc. The times,speeds, and results will be the same.
But nobody is going to come up with the same stories, names, places that are part of all of the various religions because in all of modern humanity the uniquness of the stories vary to the uniqueness of the cultures. Not by tests that produce the same results. Sure the remote island people will most likely come up with something of their own to explain their unexplainables but nobody is going to see a sunrise and and immediately think "In the beginning God created..." and jot down Genesis.

 

[WaltL1]

E=MC2 will still be the same. The Speed of Light will still be 186,000 mph. The constants remain constant. It's just a matter of the time it would take to refigure them out.
It is similar to the remote island scenario.
Coconuts will still fall down no matter if you've never heard of gravity, someone will eventually figure out how fast the earth is spinning and that the planets revolve around the Sun, how long it takes etc etc etc. The times,speeds, and results will be the same.
But nobody is going to come up with the same stories, names, places that are part of all of the various religions because in all of modern humanity the uniquness of the stories vary to the uniqueness of the cultures. Not by tests that produce the same results. Sure the remote island people will most likely come up with something of their own to explain their unexplainables but nobody is going to see a sunrise and and immediately think "In the beginning God created..." and jot down Genesis.

I definitely agree the constants will remain constant. I was thinking more along the lines of medical science etc. and what may be discovered there.
Heck, there might not even be a need for religion 1,000 years from now.

 

[brutally honest]

E=MC2 will still be the same. The Speed of Light will still be 186,000 mph. The constants remain constant. It's just a matter of the time it would take to refigure them out.

Side note — I read this recently:

Amazon.com

I thought it was interesting.

 

[oldfella1962]

It was a good analogy. But definitely debatable. If we go back 1,000 years from now, how much of that "science" is the same?
It would be really interesting to know what "science" from this era would be exactly the same 1,000 years from now and what science gets completely flipped on its head.

I think what Ricky meant was that basic scientific facts don't really change. We may discover new facts or ignore old facts depending on our motivations and focus. There won't be hundreds of wildly different explanations of what fire is and how to make it. But there will be hundreds of wildly different religions. That's my take on it anyway.

 

[oldfella1962]

I definitely agree the constants will remain constant. I was thinking more along the lines of medical science etc. and what may be discovered there.
Heck, there might not even be a need for religion 1,000 years from now.

Evolution is a wild roller coaster of a ride! A few hundred thousand years ago if things had gone just a little bit differently in human brain evolution, we quite possibly wouldn't even have religion today!

 

[oldfella1962]

Side note — I read this recently:

Amazon.com

I thought it was interesting.

I've heard of this ratio and how frequently it emerges in many walks of life. It is quite fascinating!