.380 effectivness

[The Original Rooster]

I found the discussion on "stopping" interesting.
Ive seen plenty of deer hit with 30-06 .308 .270 .25-06 and various other rifles that make handgun terminal ballistics anemic by comparison. Plenty of em hauled tail when hit and several quite a ways.
It got me to thinking about where I shoot deer now that Im older and quite possibly picked up a thing or two.
After decades of heart shots I now shoot high shoulder and they never run. Take away the wheels and down they go every single time.
Though its a smaller target Im starting to wonder if the sweet spots for stopping someone with bad intent may be a little higher and a good bit lower than center mass.
Im sure their are many good reasons things are done the way theyre done and trainers train the way they do but just from what Ive seen on game animals, just above the breast plate and the pelvis would seem like likely placement for stopping a threat by removing mobility or use of appendages. Not positive but pretty sure the pelvis would stop an advance cold.
Just thinking out loud...

Good points. The famous NY Stakeout squad member Jim Cirillo was a fan of the pelvic shot. Folks can’t move with a fractured hip very easily and it's extremely painful and dangerous to be shot there.

 

[Dub]

What grip would you suggest.? That “tea cup” grip is what I usually go to myself.

She does an excellent job of instruction.
Once you engrain the grip she instructs here you'll be able to be natural with it in a couple sessions.

Your accuracy and ability to shoot faster while making accurate hits will far surpass anything you used to do with the tea cup grip.

Prepare to amaze yourself.

 

[HarryO45]

Modern shooting techniques

 

[HarryO45]

She does an excellent job of instruction.
Once you engrain the grip she instructs here you'll be able to be natural with it in a couple sessions.

Your accuracy and ability to shoot faster while making accurate hits will far surpass anything you used to do with the tea cup grip.

Prepare to amaze yourself.

Massad Ayoob has several excellent on the subject- YouTube- he don't look nearly as good though. Honestly new shooters should learn these techniques, high grip both thumbs forward towards target

 

[frankwright]

Gentleman, haven’t posted in years or bought a pistol. Last I bought was an Xds in 45. Haven't seen anything posted in awhile about that pistol and just wanted thoughts.

Not to leave you hanging, bonnransr. I had an XDS in .45 years ago. It was a good gun and I enjoyed it but it was pretty limited on capacity, especially as crazy as the world has become.
I sold it and bought the 9mm version and I liked it a lot. I carried it and shot it for years and eventually sold it to a family member and upped my capacity again with the Sig 365 XL.

XDS is still a good gun. Here was my .45 when I sold it.

 

[transfixer]

I found the discussion on "stopping" interesting.
Ive seen plenty of deer hit with 30-06 .308 .270 .25-06 and various other rifles that make handgun terminal ballistics anemic by comparison. Plenty of em hauled tail when hit and several quite a ways.
It got me to thinking about where I shoot deer now that Im older and quite possibly picked up a thing or two.
After decades of heart shots I now shoot high shoulder and they never run. Take away the wheels and down they go every single time.
Though its a smaller target Im starting to wonder if the sweet spots for stopping someone with bad intent may be a little higher and a good bit lower than center mass.
Im sure their are many good reasons things are done the way theyre done and trainers train the way they do but just from what Ive seen on game animals, just above the breast plate and the pelvis would seem like likely placement for stopping a threat by removing mobility or use of appendages. Not positive but pretty sure the pelvis would stop an advance cold.
Just thinking out loud...

You just described how I have shot deer for the last 30yrs, ever since I got focused on being as precise as I could when it comes to aiming, I quit trying to hit center of deer so to speak, high slightly behind the shoulder will drop them in their tracks every time, with little to no meat damage, I've helped track deer with their heart obliterated with an 06 or 7mag and they've run 100yds or more , but I've dropped dozens with and 85/87gr bthp out of a .243

 

[menhadenman]

Today's carry gat.

Champion of Three World Wars..........



View attachment 1302779View attachment 1302780View attachment 1302781View attachment 1302782View attachment 1302783


I subscribe to the thought sometimes hardware should be comforting vs comfortable.


Don't get me wrong.....there are certainly times when I'll go smaller & lighter.
Today, however, isn't one of those days.


I have somewhere to go and I'd rather have a full grown .45.

Looking good @Dub !

I went the other route and had my bathing suite pistol (LCP in 22LR) with me for a doctor appointment. Reminded me of a great meme you’d appreciate.

 

[chase870]

Got a friend of mine who had a some ladies husband shoot him with a 380 did not kill him but he says hurt real real real bad

 

[Hillbilly stalker]

I’ve said it before and it still stands, when bullets hit flesh there are no guarantees.

Tracy Adkins the country singer was shot with a .38, the bullet went thru 2 chambers of his heart, he walked out of the room before falling. He lived and is healthy as a horse.

Ive personally seen a guy who was shot in the forehead with a .38, he got out of the hospital the next day. Lived

Heard a shooting going down one night when on foot patrol. When I came around the corner of the building, a guy was standing there threatening the guy who shot him . He took 7 .40 cal rounds to his legs and it never even knocked him down. I don’t know how they didn’t clip the femoral artery. Lived

Same guy got shot a couple years later with either a 380 or 25. Took 3 rounds to the chest, ran off and called an Ambulance a couple hours later. Luckiest man alive. He was chiseled like a statue from being in prison.

My old Sgt. ,6 months after retirement , was shot in the head with a .45. He lived for over a year and was fully functional. He passed from something else.

Ive also seen several killed with .22’s, ,25’s, .38’s and 9mm. There is just no guarantee unless you disrupt the Central nervous system.

With all that Ive personally seen I will say a .380 in your pocket is better than the .45 you left back home on the nightstand if you need one. You should carry the biggest baddest thing you can conceal and shoot accurately.

.45 is my 1st pick.

 

[transfixer]

I’ve said it before and it still stands, when bullets hit flesh there are no guarantees.

Tracy Adkins the country singer was shot with a .38, the bullet went thru 2 chambers of his heart, he walked out of the room before falling. He lived and is healthy as a horse.

Ive personally seen a guy who was shot in the forehead with a .38, he got out of the hospital the next day. Lived

Heard a shooting going down one night when on foot patrol. When I came around the corner of the building, a guy was standing there threatening the guy who shot him . He took 7 .40 cal rounds to his legs and it never even knocked him down. I don’t know how they didn’t clip the femoral artery. Lived

Same guy got shot a couple years later with either a 380 or 25. Took 3 rounds to the chest, ran off and called an Ambulance a couple hours later. Luckiest man alive. He was chiseled like a statue from being in prison.

My old Sgt. ,6 months after retirement , was shot in the head with a .45. He lived for over a year and was fully functional. He passed from something else.

Ive also seen several killed with .22’s, ,25’s, .38’s and 9mm. There is just no guarantee unless you disrupt the Central nervous system.

With all that Ive personally seen I will say a .380 in your pocket is better than the .45 you left back home on the nightstand if you need one. You should carry the biggest baddest thing you can conceal and shoot accurately.

.45 is my 1st pick.

speaking of 45 calibers, my stepson responded to a suicide call when he was on uniform patrol 7 or 8 yrs ago, guy was sitting in a chair in the middle of his living room, beer bottles on the floor around the chair, story is his girlfriend was leaving him or some such, he had taken a 45lc pistol(don't remember what kind he said) put it under his chin pointed upwards and pulled the trigger, there was about an inch diameter hole in the top of his head, occasionally bubbling blood, stepson and his partner went to check for a pulse, and the guy grabbed their hand and said "help me" , he was still alive and could talk! ambulance came and got him took him to the hospital, stepson saw the ambulance driver couple days later and guy said the last he had heard the guy was still alive !

I know nothing much about the brain, but it apparently went through the middle of his brain and out the top ? guess there wasn't motor function located there ? I imagine the guy would have had some sort of disability function wise after that though?

Stepson said he still remember that guy grabbing them, they bout jumped out of their skin when he did that and spoke !

 

[Hillbilly stalker]

speaking of 45 calibers, my stepson responded to a suicide call when he was on uniform patrol 7 or 8 yrs ago, guy was sitting in a chair in the middle of his living room, beer bottles on the floor around the chair, story is his girlfriend was leaving him or some such, he had taken a 45lc pistol(don't remember what kind he said) put it under his chin pointed upwards and pulled the trigger, there was about an inch diameter hole in the top of his head, occasionally bubbling blood, stepson and his partner went to check for a pulse, and the guy grabbed their hand and said "help me" , he was still alive and could talk! ambulance came and got him took him to the hospital, stepson saw the ambulance driver couple days later and guy said the last he had heard the guy was still alive !

I know nothing much about the brain, but it apparently went through the middle of his brain and out the top ? guess there wasn't motor function located there ? I imagine the guy would have had some sort of disability function wise after that though?

Stepson said he still remember that guy grabbing them, they bout jumped out of their skin when he did that and spoke !

Saw about the same but with a 12 gauge. The long barrel made the guy angle his head a little and I guess that’s what saved him. His teeth were stuck in the ceiling . He lived, he looked like the Predator when I first saw him. He wears a beard now.

 

[westcobbdog]

The most enlightening thing I've seen on caliber vs stopping power was this video on YouTube. It's 5 years old now but despite some advances in bullet manufacture that helps effectiveness, it still applies. It takes a few minutes to get through it but I think it's worth it. The .380 is addressed at the 7:25 mark.

It's also talked about in this article. In short, whatever you can hit an attacker with more than one hit is the best thing to carry because the only thing that guarantees better stopping power is multiple hits.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power

Written by: Greg Ellifritz I've been interested in firearm stopping power for a very long time. I remember reading Handguns magazine back in the late 1980s when Evan Marshall was writing articles about

www.activeresponsetraining.net

Very interesting, made me feel better about the Glock I have chambered in .380, very eye opening. My buddy just bought a Judge, with one barrel shooting a .410 with 5 pellets, making it very lethal. I told him not to buy that particular pistol but was clearly wrong in my amateur assessment.

 

[The Original Rooster]

Very interesting, made me feel better about the Glock I have chambered in .380, very eye opening. My buddy just bought a Judge, with one barrel shooting a .410 with 5 pellets, making it very lethal. I told him not to buy that particular pistol but was clearly wrong in my amateur assessment.

If you can put 2-3 quick hits with it in the bad guys upper body, I'd feel just fine with a Glock .380. I'm not a big fan of The Judge either, but at pistol fight ranges I can see how it could be effective.

 

[snuffy]

What are y’all’s thoughts about this type bullet.

 

[tcward]

What are y’all’s thoughts about this type bullet.View attachment 1304221

Probably one of the better loads in .380. Tools and Targets on You Tube has some good vids on this type round. Seems feeding could be an issue in some guns.

 

[Kowtown]

She does an excellent job of instruction.
Once you engrain the grip she instructs here you'll be able to be natural with it in a couple sessions.

Your accuracy and ability to shoot faster while making accurate hits will far surpass anything you used to do with the tea cup grip.

Prepare to amaze yourself.

I much admire her grips.

 

[SC Hunter]

Saw about the same but with a 12 gauge. The long barrel made the guy angle his head a little and I guess that’s what saved him. His teeth were stuck in the ceiling . He lived, he looked like the Predator when I first saw him. He wears a beard now.

There is a fella like that around where I work at. 12 gauge and he flinched and now is all jacked up. Seems to be a good guy, I hate it for him.

 

[GunnSmokeer]

I carry a KelTec P3AT, which we all know is a .380 caliber, but I didn't choose it for the caliber, I chose it for the SIZE of the GUN itself.
Actually, 20 years ago I first chose the P32, before the P3AT was even on the market for the public to buy.
Then when I found a deal on the .380 version, I upgraded.
Is the .380 a real manstopper? No.
Will it penetrate deep enough with HP ammo, and will those hollowpoints expand?
Well, an exhaustive test by LuckyGunner dot com says yes, A FEW brands and bullet types have the ability to drive 10 to 12 inches deep into ballistic gelatin AND open up to something like .50 or .60 in diameter.

I don't recall if those numbers were generated from a tiny pocket pistol with a 2.3" barrel like mine, or a medium-sized gun with something like a 4" barrel. That can matter.

Anyhow, bottom line, is I decided to go with 95 gr. or 100 gr. FMJ ammo for both practice and self defense in my pistol.
1--- That ammo is cheaper, so I can afford to practice with and regularly rotate through my ammo. I also get to see the point-of-impact with the exact load I carry.
3-- Round-nose full copper jacket ammo is more RELIABLE, and my little gun has a very steep feed ramp, and sometimes the bullet nose gets visibly scuffed up smacking that before sliding up into the chamber. I just don't want to risk a Failture-to-Feed with a hollow point, a blunt-tipped bullet profile.
4-- my pocket pistol is a "get off me!" gun. Not a duty pistol made to take down bad guys in a gunfight across a parking lot or warehouse.

 

[GunnSmokeer]

P.S. I do practice with it. Shortly after I bought this gun for $200, I had already shot up $200 worth of ammo for it.
Then I found a deal on a full case of 1000 rounds, so I bought that.
I've got 100 left. So I went through 900 rounds from that shipment plus about 5-6 fifty-round boxes of .380 ammo in the last 7 years since I got this KelTec. If you practice with your carry gun, you can get really good and fast at putting rounds on target (center mass). Even for a cheap gun that has sloppy tolerances and terrible "sights."

 

[Ruger#3]

Think I’ll strap on my .380 and take momma out to lunch today. If I don’t report back this thread is settled.