Converting Jews to Christianity

[Spotlite]

Interesting! Bart knows the Bible inside and out, sideways and upside down (I guess that is being "carnally educated") but because he doesn't come to the same conclusions as the Christian community - which he used to be a part of - he lacks the "spiritual intelligence" thus he is "owned" by default even when he debates an apologist who cannot count to potato.

Speaking of "spiritual understanding" and "the Bible not being complicated" what are your thoughts on there being hundreds - some say thousands but I'm skeptical of that claim - of Christian denominations in America alone? Whatever that source is that gives believers "spiritual understanding" I'd say it's running a bit dry. I'm sure somebody will clear that up for me.

BRW no he’s not owned just because he came to the conclusion he did. He’s owned during debates when his “debunking” doesn’t debunk. If he’d debunked this - we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

True, there are 100’s of doctrines with differences - they’re NOT from the same source.

Who’s right / wrong??? You and I disagree about God - in your opinion, who’s right?

 

[bullethead]

Yup, you’re exactly right. And so is the part where God reveals this to us. If they knew the book like they claim……

"We" know what the book says. Not much different than the Quran as far as "only the chosen can understand...beware of false prophets"....etc.
"People will say this stuff cannot be proven, that it exists nowhere outside of these pages, that even if you research yourselves you won't find anything that backs it up...but don't listen to them and don't question what we are telling you because we have foretold that they would and you might with our super special powers in order to show how we can use a passage to confirm itself as long as people fall for it" Page 1, Sentence 1, Rule #1 "everything in this book is true" Sentence 2 "see sentence 1 if questioned or you have questions"

Gotta make the members feel special, part of the club, exclusive.

 

[bullethead]

All books, fiction and non fiction, contains contents of what is within the book.

True. But, only cult like writings make it an absolute priority to inform their followers that others will question whats written and instruct their followers to not question what is written because they know the writings are a depiction of fantasy mixed with reality in order to make it believable for the people who fund them.

 

[bullethead]

My thoughts are still the same. Everyone that says Lord Lord will not enter in. There’ll be those that claim they find things in Gods name.

Everyone isn’t getting different interpretations from the sane source.

Bart uses the Bible to justify himself. There’s a difference in the “knowing”.

Yes, the less you study the writings, the more you know. Religion counts on that.

 

[oldfella1962]

Isn’t like the carnally educated weren’t foretold.

Matthew 7:15​

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.”

That verse makes sense (in theory) but how does any believer know which prophets are false? Many Christians would say "do they preach from Biblical principles?" but because there are so many different interpretations of the Bible, it turns into "if you don't believe the way I believe, you are preaching a false message". If a Christian wants to say "you can tell by their fruits/behavior" there are preachers/prophets/clergy/etcetera who preach for many decades then a scandal hits and it turns out they have been knee deep in every crime & sin imaginable the whole time.

My point is this: the believer can "beware" all they want to, but unless they are so paranoid that they don't trust any preacher/prophet there's no way to know who is legit and who is not.

 

[Ruger#3]

When one thinks about the persecution and murder of the early Christians when something sounds too rosey it probably is.

“For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”

 

[bullethead]

We have 2 sides of the same coin here. People that don't beleive because of what is written in the Bible and people who do believe because of what is written in the Bible.
Each use the exact same words to strengthen their stance yet somehow life goes on.

 

[bullethead]

When one thinks about the persecution and murder of the early Christians when something sounds too rosey it probably is.

“For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”

Eeerry body was persecuted back then.

 

[oldfella1962]

Now you get my point. There’s no “proof”

“knowing his stuff” to you only means he think like you do.

No that wasn't my point. I don't expect anyone to think like I do. Thinking like I do is my job, not theirs. Let's say Bart is debating/discussing with an apologist who has devoted years to his craft. That apologist is going to make Bart earn his money, and rightly so. That debate will force both of them to elevate their game and find better ways of explaining their beliefs.

But if Bart debates an apologist whose only defense is "god is perfect so take that!" and Christians think Bart got destroyed, they are sadly mistaken.
Nobody on either side in a theological debate has rock solid "proof" but I respect those who operate at a high level to have coherent arguments and explanations for why they think like they do on a particular subject.

 

[oldfella1962]

Yup, you’re exactly right. And so is the part where God reveals this to us. If they knew the book like they claim……

Faitr enough. But if every Christian "knows the book" (and many think that they know it better than the next Christian) then how do false prophets operate for decades? With all these Christians "knowing the Bible" they would be shut down on day #1, would they not?

 

[bullethead]

Faitr enough. But if every Christian "knows the book" (and many think that they know it better than the next Christian) then how do false prophets operate for decades? With all these Christians "knowing the Bible" they would be shut down on day #1, would they not?

It seems that many of the believers wear "God's #1 Fan" t-shirts and think the other guy isn't quite the fan that they are. Gotta watch out for the Christians who are "not real" Christians.

 

[oldfella1962]

We have 2 sides of the same coin here. People that don't beleive because of what is written in the Bible and people who do believe because of what is written in the Bible.
Each use the exact same words to strengthen their stance yet somehow life goes on.

And this will continue for hundreds if not thousands of years from now until Christianity goes extinct unless rock-solid evidence (and plenty of it) that the Biblical God exists is revealed. Until then everybody takes a dirt nap without seeing evidence that cannot be explained, even if they reject the explanations. This applies to all religions and even atheistic worldviews too.
Obviously, this is just my opinion - I have no evidence or proof. You'll just have to take it on faith!

 

[oldfella1962]

It seems that many of the believers wear "God's #1 Fan" t-shirts and think the other guy isn't quite the fan that they are. Gotta watch out for the Christians who are "not real" Christians.

That reminds me. As far as I know the "snake handlers" use rattlesnakes in their services. Have any of them started using other types of venomous/dangerous snakes? You know they don't have rattlesnakes in the region where the Bible was written. The snake handlers should use dangerous snakes from the Bible region just to be more authentic.

 

[Nicodemus]

That reminds me. As far as I know the "snake handlers" use rattlesnakes in their services. Have any of them started using other types of venomous/dangerous snakes? You know they don't have rattlesnakes in the region where the Bible was written. The snake handlers should use dangerous snakes from the Bible region just to be more authentic.

From the pictures I`ve seen they use mostly timber-canebrake rattlesnakes, occasionally copperheads. I`ve never seen a diamondback rattlesnake in any of their services, and certainly not ever a pygmy rattler.

IF, I had to freehand any of our venomous snakes, it would be either a canebrake or cottonmouth. Compared to any of the others they are docile. Especially the canebrakes.

 

[Spotlite]

"We" know what the book says. Not much different than the Quran as far as "only the chosen can understand...beware of false prophets"....etc.
"People will say this stuff cannot be proven, that it exists nowhere outside of these pages, that even if you research yourselves you won't find anything that backs it up...but don't listen to them and don't question what we are telling you because we have foretold that they would and you might with our super special powers in order to show how we can use a passage to confirm itself as long as people fall for it" Page 1, Sentence 1, Rule #1 "everything in this book is true" Sentence 2 "see sentence 1 if questioned or you have questions"

Gotta make the members feel special, part of the club, exclusive.

No one ever said don’t ask questions. No one that I know believes it just because someone told them it was true.

It doesn’t help to research anything you’re already convinced “isn’t”.

I’ve researched since I was about 13……..unless you’ve experienced spiritually what I have……you’re in no position to tell me it’s not there. It’s for me, I don’t try to convince you. That’s how it works for me.

You don’t have to believe this any more than I believe the Muslim.

But you and I know where each other stands and why we stand there. I respect your position on that.

 

[Spotlite]

True. But, only cult like writings make it an absolute priority to inform their followers that others will question whats written and instruct their followers to not question what is written because they know the writings are a depiction of fantasy mixed with reality in order to make it believable for the people who fund them.

I was warned of drunk drivers when taking my drivers test - is that cult related?

Education / warning isn’t an absolute priority.

 

[Spotlite]

Yes, the less you study the writings, the more you know. Religion counts on that.

Wrong. Studying is the most important thing you should do.

But, you don’t study atheists opinions and call that debunking Christianity.

 

[Spotlite]

No that wasn't my point. I don't expect anyone to think like I do. Thinking like I do is my job, not theirs. Let's say Bart is debating/discussing with an apologist who has devoted years to his craft. That apologist is going to make Bart earn his money, and rightly so. That debate will force both of them to elevate their game and find better ways of explaining their beliefs.

But if Bart debates an apologist whose only defense is "god is perfect so take that!" and Christians think Bart got destroyed, they are sadly mistaken.
Nobody on either side in a theological debate has rock solid "proof" but I respect those who operate at a high level to have coherent arguments and explanations for why they think like they do on a particular subject.

You should really dig into more debates with Bart verses Christian.

Christians are that kindergarten to think saying “God is perfect so take that” and believe that anyone gets destroyed. We’re not on low level thinking like most atheists believe we are.

 

[Spotlite]

Faitr enough. But if every Christian "knows the book" (and many think that they know it better than the next Christian) then how do false prophets operate for decades? With all these Christians "knowing the Bible" they would be shut down on day #1, would they not?

Some Christians here won’t agree with me saying this - everyone isn’t going to heaven.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that. It does warn there’ll be many that He said depart from me I never knew you.

But, some Joe cracker will have 1000,s believing him when he says everyone’s going.

Their study consists of someone telling them something they like.

I mean even the Democrats have support.

 

[bullethead]

No one ever said don’t ask questions. No one that I know believes it just because someone told them it was true.

It doesn’t help to research anything you’re already convinced “isn’t”.

I’ve researched since I was about 13……..unless you’ve experienced spiritually what I have……you’re in no position to tell me it’s not there. It’s for me, I don’t try to convince you. That’s how it works for me.

You don’t have to believe this any more than I believe the Muslim.

But you and I know where each other stands and why we stand there. I respect your position on that.

I believed until I was around 20, took another 10yrs to realize that what I believed didn't line up with what I found when I researched my own religion. The last 23+ years have been me researching why.