In regards of the Lord's servants.

[gordon 2]

To the kingdom were ten virgins ( Matt. 24) half said foolish missed the Lord when he came. This is concerning the parable of the Ten Virgins. For not having enough oil to keep their lambs alight, the Lord did not know them and the door of meeting was closed to them.

"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour." This is from the beginning of the Parable of the Talents. Matt. 25. Jesus speaks on the servants of the Lord needing to keep watch, they not knowing when the Lord will come.

I have always assumed that this was an advisory to believers who were Christians, but now I have to wonder if it was not addressed to believers in the God of Abraham not yet Christians.

Why? Because if they are parables addressed to Christians ( as these are to the kingdom) the individual within must work at having sufficient "lamp oil, " and therefore "light"at the Lords coming and must invest or be actively involved in the "talents" they are in possession of which are in the end invested by the Lord through them.

However, if the individuals or groups addressed by Jesus here are not Christians yet ( I don't know how that could be cause they are to the kingdom . Maybe someone can explain.) it advises that believers of the God of Abraham must work at their faith and what fuels ( they need to have that extra fuel) it in order to meet the Lord and so to meet him who is to their benefit. It implies some work which makes for some kind of state whereby a non believer will not miss meeting with the Lord when he comes. It implies that they are earnestly endeavored to the investment given them by the God of Abraham--- in order to see the Lord when he comes. It implies work.


And regardless of who Jesus is addressing it would seem to my reading and processing that in order to meet the Lord, both as a believer of the God of Abraham and a Christian--both... meeting with the Lord requires work of the believer and the Christian--both. Or, simply Jesus says salvation requires the Lord's coming and specific spiritual works on your part to be present to it.

But this can't be right? I mean we read and hear day in day out in our times that works individual and collective are not in any form or degree to the salvific enterprise, that it is all in to God--though and yet we bank on revivals seeing need for them for the individual and the collective.

Now can this be... that Jesus advises some form of pre-being which requires individual efforts at least to access the Lord's coming successfully?

When it comes to our doctrines on works, have our lamps been with sufficient oils to give us all and sufficient light required to understand Jesus's parables-- even to us Christians regards the preparations needed and the state required for both believer and Christian to meet with the Lord?

Why can't I just fall in-- and rest in that salvation that eternal life-- is all God? It is all one way-- it is all Christ. Should I be drawn by where God leads me or by group think? Having been with the Lord, have I been deceived. It was not Him? For though I have met Him, and though my heart will not deny, it was all along another ? Still I hear as if the old call, "A voice of one calling: "In the wilderness prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the desert a highway for our God." as if it was said just yesterday.

 

[Israel]

Can it be a question holds an answer?


How can "just" believing the Lord's return is true make one ready for His appearing?

 

[gordon 2]

Can it be a question holds an answer?


How can "just" believing the Lord's return is true make one ready for His appearing?

Possibly some are psychologically or temperamentally made to it. Be alert! Keep watch! Be on guard! Be ready.

Mark 13 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Matt 24

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.



When will the end of the world be? Is perhaps a statement that through Christ the world, or the fallen world will have an end. The age of the fallen world will have an end.

Jesus therefore advises that believers have work to do so that they will find themselves ready for and be to the gathering of the elect.


Matt 24

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The above implies two servants knowing their Lord and a way of life ( work) that is righteous and one that is not-- and one that is essential to that salvation at the end of the age, or at the end of the world.

Despite both being servants, both believers for knowing the Lord, if the work of the servant is not as the Lord advises to be of necessity, he will not be to the Lord's new age " ruler over all his goods" he will not be gathered with the elect at the end of the world.

What is meat in due season and who is them that get it? This command or notice seems addressed to more than the alerted nerves for a question due to someone's belief in faith that there will be a end of an age and the Lord will return. It supposes a way of being rather, a work essential to be in the reward of the Lords return at the end of the age or the end of the world. And therefore salvation is ongoing and to works even for those that know the Lord. Once saved is as saved does and if it is chosen to not do as the Lord advises... the once saved will be cut asunder...

????

 

[j_seph]

I read about the 10 virgins as there were 5 wise and 5 foolish, in Matthew 24
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Of the 10 there were 5 foolish, these 5 were liken to those who think that just by going to church, doing good deeds, and such will get them into heaven. They went through all of the acts of being a Christian, probably even had the same lamps, with the same wicks and same oil in them. The Wise were prepared and took extra oil in case it were needed. The Wise 5 in todays terms to me are the ones going to church, doing the good deeds, etc except they are doing it to glorify God not themselves. Those 5 have had the blood applied and they are Christian not just 5 foolish acting the part. The wise made sure that they had what was needed. Then the foolish asked that the wise give them some oil, for their lamp had went out. Sort of seems like judgment came upon them. Even though they looked as the others when the critical time came their light did not shine (He goes away and we become the light). Also goes to say, even though they were together as 10, it still comes down to the individual. You cannot get to heaven on your parents salvation or anyone else's. It is a personal relationship and not something anyone else can do for you but for you, yourself to make sure that you know that you know that you know you have the oil in your lamp that does not run out.

 

[gordon 2]

I read about the 10 virgins as there were 5 wise and 5 foolish, in Matthew 24
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Of the 10 there were 5 foolish, these 5 were liken to those who think that just by going to church, doing good deeds, and such will get them into heaven. They went through all of the acts of being a Christian, probably even had the same lamps, with the same wicks and same oil in them. The Wise were prepared and took extra oil in case it were needed. The Wise 5 in todays terms to me are the ones going to church, doing the good deeds, etc except they are doing it to glorify God not themselves. Those 5 have had the blood applied and they are Christian not just 5 foolish acting the part. The wise made sure that they had what was needed. Then the foolish asked that the wise give them some oil, for their lamp had went out. Sort of seems like judgment came upon them. Even though they looked as the others when the critical time came their light did not shine (He goes away and we become the light). Also goes to say, even though they were together as 10, it still comes down to the individual. You cannot get to heaven on your parents salvation or anyone else's. It is a personal relationship and not something anyone else can do for you but for you, yourself to make sure that you know that you know that you know you have the oil in your lamp that does not run out.

Thanks for you view. So can I say that you summarize that the extra oil is putting kingdom principles into practice, not just knowing them? The lamp needs human imput to keep it burning? We may know every detail of how it will be with the end of the world, but it avails not if we do no works of some sort? We cannot sit on our salvation and claim ourselves saved? Thanks again.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I think it's all about being prepared for Christ's return. I'm just not sure how one prepares for that.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Why didn't the wise one's share their oil with the foolish ones so that they could receive salvation too?
Maybe it was a type of oil that one could not share!

 

[gordon 2]

Why didn't the wise one's share their oil with the foolish ones so that they could receive salvation too?
Maybe it was a type of oil that one could not share!

Maybe the oil is something done, some kind of walk, some kind of action, some way of being, some way of seeing, some way of distancing one's self in order to act,some kind of work needed?

Or maybe the foolish ones did not care to bother with the offerings of the wise ones--which was in some ways their foolery.

Peter said, "Pocket change I got none, but aaah, I can give you what I got. Get up and walk."

 

[Israel]

Possibly some are psychologically or temperamentally made to it. Be alert! Keep watch! Be on guard! Be ready.

Mark 13 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Matt 24

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.



When will the end of the world be? Is perhaps a statement that through Christ the world, or the fallen world will have an end. The age of the fallen world will have an end.

Jesus therefore advises that believers have work to do so that they will find themselves ready for and be to the gathering of the elect.


Matt 24

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The above implies two servants knowing their Lord and a way of life ( work) that is righteous and one that is not-- and one that is essential to that salvation at the end of the age, or at the end of the world.

Despite both being servants, both believers for knowing the Lord, if the work of the servant is not as the Lord advises to be of necessity, he will not be to the Lord's new age " ruler over all his goods" he will not be gathered with the elect at the end of the world.

What is meat in due season and who is them that get it? This command or notice seems addressed to more than the alerted nerves for a question due to someone's belief in faith that there will be a end of an age and the Lord will return. It supposes a way of being rather, a work essential to be in the reward of the Lords return at the end of the age or the end of the world. And therefore salvation is ongoing and to works even for those that know the Lord. Once saved is as saved does and if it is chosen to not do as the Lord advises... the once saved will be cut asunder...

????

Possibly some are psychologically or temperamentally made to it. Be alert! Keep watch! Be on guard! Be ready.

Matters spiritual never fit our metrics. We are either changed to them, and by them, or we are left to our own understandings. How linear man has let himself become due to an unholy accomplice.

"How true is the Lord!" and also "How true is the Lord?" are both fitting! Are both fitting? The alpha is the omega, the omega is the alpha, and the alpha and omega is One! Is one? Are One! Are one?

Is this fit to any but you?

No wonder of it: shéer plód makes plough down sillion
Shine, and blue-bleak embers, ah my dear,
Fall, gall themselves, and gash gold-vermilion.

I write as you post. You interrupt me! I had something to say! I had something to say?

Peter said, "Pocket change I got none, but aaah, I can give you what I got. Get up and walk."

Yes, Peter said, I am empty to you for what you ask...a blue bleak ember to your plea...but, Oh, how the man really saw his poverty! In getting what he didn't ask for!

How could this be done through Peter? But, how could this not be done through Peter?

Who "got" so much of what he didn't ask for!

Someone had high jacked his beggar's spot. A thief took what he once thought he needed. A place he was put "every day"...(no doubt a good spot to hope for some piety...catching those now bent to God's service on their way to the Temple).

Lost to him now.

How can "just" believing the Lord's return is true make one ready for His appearing?

There's a thief at work, taking all other expectations, even sweetest "other" hopes (I hope these guys got some gold coin on them!).

No. NO. a bazillion times no. It is not "hyper vigilance" it is not fretfully searching with edge of the seat terror it can be missed.

What question(s) may come to a man who is told to be ready for he is also told will be when he does not expect?

"Therefore be ye also ready for at such an hour ye think not the son of man comes"

To whom alone can he go with such question(s)?

 

[Israel]

 

[Israel]

Some questions are born of doubt.

They still work.

Some questions are born of faith.

They still work.

Happy is the man caught in such intercourse? Happy is the man caught in such intercourse!

One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to inquire in his temple.

 

[gordon 2]

Matters 1.

"Matters spiritual never fit our metrics." Bros. in your essay do you say this? Or have you made someone else--a foil-- say this?

Matters spiritual are inherent to man I say. And further, metrics are ever a juggle of who we would give authority for them, --even shifting authorities. Authority for this here, authority for that there. "Man the wonderer, the spiritual migrant is spiritual. Even in settings where there is but himself with himself and the stars-- he is spiritual.

Matters 2.

The sweetness of a berry might have never been known had not Israel's mother picked it up.

Paul writes, "

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

I say, I gordo says, "What a good day today is-- to pray and though my prayers might be plain--sweet will it be for the company that will hear them." All the week long I have weeded, the sun ripened and today I will draw my hand to my mouth to weed again and live to pray.

 

[gordon 2]

Matter 3.

Vigilance is carnal when it fears the wolf at the door. Christ comes in as a lamb in through our doors and into our dens of wolves. It is not as one would expect.

 

[Israel]

Matter 3.

Vigilance is carnal when it fears the wolf at the door. Christ comes in as a lamb in through our doors and into our dens of wolves. It is not as one would expect.

Yes. Our metrics of expectation become self evident. Would one say by a necessary renewing of mind?
One has said that.

 

[gordon 2]

Yes. Our metrics of expectation become self evident. Would one say by a necessary renewing of mind?
One has said that.

Well I suppose that science's cause and effect of actual events leads to renewal of mind as reason alone will renew the mind.-- But a renewed mind from a renewed heart that's divine.

Nature, raw nature is ever to exception. For example our sayings as in "a fox, is a fox, is a fox." That is to say foxes act like foxes and are very predictable. Reason has added to this observation another observation. " A fox is a fox, is a fox is a fox, but a coyote is a coyote, is a coyote not all the time." That is to say as fox are predictable as to behaviors in the canine world it is not the case with coyotes.

Coyotes jump out of predictability with much greater ease than foxes. Coyotes are wise to most any environment compared to foxes... etc... By nature killers they much like us humans can always have their odd tokens however. Coyotes can fight their own fear hormones and so for food and advantage if it means less work for them... this is good as it is food with less risk.

 

[gordon 2]

Bros. I do not expect the last word.

 

[j_seph]

Thanks for you view. So can I say that you summarize that the extra oil is putting kingdom principles into practice, not just knowing them? The lamp needs human imput to keep it burning? We may know every detail of how it will be with the end of the world, but it avails not if we do no works of some sort? We cannot sit on our salvation and claim ourselves saved? Thanks again.

The lamp is useless without human input. The oil cannot get their itself, and what oil we put there, if the lamp is used will burn up. Wow that opens another one up. We go to church to worship but we also go there to refuel our spirit. We also study Gods word and pray which also refuels that light inside of us. I believe once we are saved, we are saved. Even though some folks like you say just sit on it and do nothing. I was one of those, Saved at 19 and sat a while on it. About 5 or so years ago I came to a point in my life that sitting on it started to cause a pain in the butt and in my life. I had to do some repenting and get back in that path. I had used up the oil and had to have the wick trimmed up a pretty good bit. The wick was still there but had dried up and could not be lit. We were not saved to sit on a stool of do nothing.

 

[Israel]

‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’







For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

 

[hummerpoo]

The lamp is useless without human input. The oil cannot get their itself, and what oil we put there, if the lamp is used will burn up. Wow that opens another one up. We go to church to worship but we also go there to refuel our spirit. We also study Gods word and pray which also refuels that light inside of us. I believe once we are saved, we are saved. Even though some folks like you say just sit on it and do nothing. I was one of those, Saved at 19 and sat a while on it. About 5 or so years ago I came to a point in my life that sitting on it started to cause a pain in the butt and in my life. I had to do some repenting and get back in that path. I had used up the oil and had to have the wick trimmed up a pretty good bit. The wick was still there but had dried up and could not be lit. We were not saved to sit on a stool of do nothing.

My experience could be said to parallel yours, but the incitement to get off my butt ("sitting on it started to cause a pain in the butt and in my life") was clearly not attributable to anything of my doing; and it soon became clear that the provocation to "sit" in the first place had a purpose that was external to my being as well.

 

[Israel]

Matters 1.

"Matters spiritual never fit our metrics." Bros. in your essay do you say this? Or have you made someone else--a foil-- say this?

Matters spiritual are inherent to man I say. And further, metrics are ever a juggle of who we would give authority for them, --even shifting authorities. Authority for this here, authority for that there. "Man the wonderer, the spiritual migrant is spiritual. Even in settings where there is but himself with himself and the stars-- he is spiritual.

Matters 2.

The sweetness of a berry might have never been known had not Israel's mother picked it up.

Paul writes, "

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

I say, I gordo says, "What a good day today is-- to pray and though my prayers might be plain--sweet will it be for the company that will hear them." All the week long I have weeded, the sun ripened and today I will draw my hand to my mouth to weed again and live to pray.

There is no implication that man is neither spiritual, nor that spiritual matters are not of fundamental importance. But I trust you are not seeking to make a straw man of my words.

"Matters spiritual never fit our metrics."

For I did not neglect to follow that with:

We are either changed to them, and by them, or we are left to our own understandings.

Jesus Christ speaks spirit and life. Were any man, or any other man in so possession of His understanding in all these matters, of spirit and life, of what use is the Lord's word to such a one? To what would the man needs be drawn into, or changed?

This matter of the mind's renewal from a "from" to a "to" is not only necessary, but our Lord Himself (of those He had/has(?) chosen) does not seek to hide His mild exasperation here:

And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.


And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

Paul spoke of a progress. Peter spoke of a progress. It's of no consequence to me if a man has trouble with the use of the word metrics...meaning only what a man measures and judges by.

Peter:

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Paul:

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

And perhaps the writer of Hebrews, understanding the necessity of such renewal/transformation is most specific of all in the differentiation between novice and elder:

Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Why are these matters paramount? Precisely because man is spiritual in nature, dead or alive, and such judgments of what is good, and what is evil come not native to him in his natural estate but are only received by reason of use , having been persuaded first, he is spiritual and therefore in all consequence according to his nature, that such cannot be abrogated (and must be learned will not be indulged) and in so learning finds that growth is pressed to him to his benefit, that he not be one as beats the air nor is left an infant even to unknowingly injuring of himself, and also those who see him for, or as, example.

But, I am just beginning. Though I believe the above to be true.