Is training at 100 yards good enough?

[rayjay]

I once let a guy shoot some 7mm/08 reloads over my chrono. They were going 2400 which is way less than what he thought. That will make a HECK of a difference at longer ranges.

 

[Jester896]

Also, if 4" is all you can do at 100 then that's about as far as you should shoot at game.

If you regularly shoot a 4" group at 100 yards and you are extremely consistent, your group at 200 yards will be 8" and 12" at 300 yards. You might better stay inside of 100 yards

It's not as simple as making a ballistic calculation to hit at longer range. You have to practice at longer range. North and South Point of impacts don't play a major role at longer distances, but East and West points of impact make a tremendous difference. It's also not as simple thinking that you are hitting one inch off at 9 o'clock equating to two off at 200

I am not following your north and south, east and west points of impact...are you talking about wind and not really POI?

It also gives you confidence in your shot which is one of the most comforting and calming things to have with you when you decide to shoot a live target.

Now there's some strong truth

I once let a guy shoot some 7mm/08 reloads over my chrono. They were going 2400 which is way less than what he thought. That will make a HECK of a difference at longer ranges.

It sure does...and relying on the information on the side of the bullet box is about the same error. Just because they ran 2600 fps for them doesn't mean it does from your gun.

just about any hunting scope that has 2 sets of numbers on the power ring has some type of range finding capabilities.

 

[BriarPatch99]

Yeah ....I can imagine those guys that shot at the Moon saying ....We really shouldn't be shooting beyond what we know for sure !!!!?

My longest "kill" on a deer was 414 yards measured .... I was hunting down a propane pipeline and had prior measured and flagged the yardage with flagging tape in both directions 500 yards each way ...

I use what is called Point Blank Range PBR( no not the other PBR) .... I use a 3" radius . ... meaning the bullet is never higher than 3" nor lower than 3" the line of sight LS( the straight line from your eye to the target). The maximum height (3" ) is 155 yards and lowest point is at 313 yards using the 115 grain Nosler BT ....PBR is 313 yards for this combo in my rifle.

I held the scope horizontal wire just above his back and easily squeezed the trigger ... he never moved out his tracks .... I knew he was beyond my PBR and needs some extra height ....

Yes I had shot many times with targets at various ranges between 200 and 400 yards so I had a real go idea of where my bullet would land ....I have a chronograph and knew the velocity ....I also knew the true ballistic Coefficient of the bullet (Brian Litz numbers) .... using JBM Calculator .....

IF you have ALL the needed information and use a good calculator like JBM ...... a shooter can place a bullet a lot closer on target ..... Guessing or not knowing .....is nothing but a shot in the wind .....

 

[GeorgiaBob]

I am not following your north and south, east and west points of impact...are you talking about wind and not really POI?

When you get far enough from the muzzle, the rotation of the earth does have an impact on where your bullet will land!

 

[NCHillbilly]

I wouldn't shoot at a deer 300 yards away, myself, because I haven't shot very much at that kind of range and don't trust my ability to consistantly make a good shot, even though I have a rifle that will do its part out there. It's a whole different game. I've shot a couple at around 200, but I don't even like that.

 

[delacroix]

300 yards with a magnum under calm conditons is easy if you have your shooting down pat at shorter ranges. I can set anyone who doesn't flinch up with a solid rested position and have them make first round hits at 300. No big deal if you understand basic mechanics of shooting. Practice 100 yards with a 22 trainer and get on with your life.

Now if you add wind or go further and it is not so easy. What I have found by shooting at longer ranges is I have unexpected misses. I chalk that up to I am not good at reading wind and am not willing to put in the practice to learn. It's not a useful skill for my hunting. Missing steel with 223 doesn't bother me.

Really the animal is far enough that it doesn't feel like a hunting interaction so much as target shooting. Just different things.

 

[PopPop]

I like what Briar Patch said, my experience is very similar. One variable that should be strongly considered is time of flight. Game animals move. The kill zone may have moved significantly during the time it takes for a bullet to get there.
My limit is 400 yards, for this reason alone.

 

[bullethead]

An outfitter told me this many years ago. "Hold on Hair, not on Air". Centerfire cartridges designed for big game shoot remarkably flat. A mature buck is 18" to 24" top to bottom. A 180gr bullet from a 3006 going 2700fps,and sighted dead on at 100yds will drop 14" at 300yds. Sight it in so that it is on at 200yds and it only drops 8.5" at 300yds and 15" at 350yds.
It absolutely pays to practice shooting at long range if possible, but, if all you have is 100yds and you can put a lot of trigger time in where you can control your breathing, trigger pull and consistently hit what you are aiming at , that certainly will not hurt anything. If you are shooting 1" groups at 100yds you are good to go to 300/350. Smaller groups, even better.
Hold on Hair, not on Air. For the vast majority of hunters using cartridges that are sending bullets 2600fps and faster, if you need to put daylight between your Xhairs and the animal...it is not probably too far..it is definitely too far. For a small percentage of hunters that practice shooting 400+ yards. They have the skills and equipment to make those shots routine rather than lucky. Be realistic of the ranges possible where you hunt and plan accordingly.

 

[Jester896]

When you get far enough from the muzzle, the rotation of the earth does have an impact on where your bullet will land!

true..but not at 300 yards...maybe around 1200 yards...don't forget that your RH twist is sending it that way too...but none of this stuff applies to normal hunting scenarios that the majority of folks do in GA or in this discussion.

I like what Briar Patch said, my experience is very similar. One variable that should be strongly considered is time of flight. Game animals move. The kill zone may have moved significantly during the time it takes for a bullet to get there.
My limit is 400 yards, for this reason alone.

I have rifles set up like BriarPatch99 with straight/standard crosshairs and some with BDC reticles that are the same but different and I have some that I dial up. I use StrelocPro for those rifles and all that is stored in the app for each rifle.

You have to know MV from your rifle...not the box..and at least the G1 BC (JBM is good maybe the best) to enter the info in these calculators...then you have to go and prove it. If you can't prove it don't do it.

BriarPatch99...kinda funny you mention Litz....I was in a conversation with some others and his people at the Expo...and one of them said he (Brian) always says that if people didn't use soo much time with every nit picking thing about reloading...they would have more time to shoot and that is what was going to make them better shooters.

If you are shooting 1" groups at 100yds you are good to go to 300/350. Smaller groups, even better.
.

If you are shooting 1" groups at 100 and are consistent... your group error at 300 will be 3"

 

[bullethead]

If you are shooting 1" groups at 100 and are consistent... your group error at 300 will be 3"

Yes, agreed. Well within an acceptable group for a whitetail.

 

[BriarPatch99]

The PBR is one reason I am working with the Barnes TTSX 80 grain in my .25/06 ....it will have a PBR of 346 yards(3" radius )remain velocity of 2580 fps ... be 7.9" low at 400 yds. with remaining velocity of 2400 fps ...well into the needed velocity to expand as it should .....

I just have not YET been able to get the accuracy I want for a 300/400 yard shot ..... if I am not comfortable ....ain't gonna do it ....

 

[Jester896]

to me that may equate to a low heart shot and the bullet just skint it as it went by underneath...I guess it matter in which direction the error is..and even more key for someone to choose a good or a different shot placement

 

[spurrs and racks]

Some of us are lucky enough to own or have access to long range shooting opportunities on a daily or common, practical basis. Others are lucky enough just to have access at 100. Some less fortunate have access to even shorter, 25 yards.

Given the circumstances, is it ever enough to train at shorter distances to hone trigger and breath control and then rely on theoretical ballistics and wind calculations to reliably and accurately hit your target at long range? Or, should you only hunt long range when you have consistent access and opportunity to shoot at actual long ranges?

Let's consider anything above 300 yards as long ranged.

I'll argue that practicing at shorter ranges coupled with experience in drop and wind calculations is better than practicing long. You can practice long all you want, but conditions will often change even in the same shooting session.

Obligatory that my opinion comes from someone with absolutely zero experience in shooting over 300 yards, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hunt longer ranges if a shooter understands the math behind making a shot. All of this comes from my gastrointestinal track.

Thoughts?

depends

if you are a pie plate shooter....

or a finger nail shooter

 

[spurrs and racks]

on an aside.....

you cannot shoot a target at 25 yrds and know what your gun is doing much less capable of doing down range at any distance.

 

[ringorock]

Okay, what I'm taking from all of this is that it's all the deer's fault for not having bigger hearts and lungs for us to shoot larger groups.

 

[JustUs4All]

I'm thinking you are either trolling now or you are having some serious difficulties with understanding.

 

[ringorock]

I'm thinking you are either trolling now or you are having some serious difficulties with understanding.

Obvious trolling not so obvious? I was asking partly for personal guidance but wanted to see if others were shooting just by the books. Seems like that population is a minority.

 

[JustUs4All]

So how did you come to understand from all this that it was the deer's fault? I don't get it. I have been told that I am pretty dense.

 

[Robust Redhorse]

You can sight in at 100 yards and use a good ballistics calculator:

http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/



Adjust your point of impact to appropriately high at 100 yards for the cartridge you are using.


Then you MUST actually practice at long distance. No dope chart out off the internet or the ammo box will be exactly right for your particular setup.


When you find the distance where you can no longer keep all of your shots within an 6" circle around the bullseye with sufficient energy (depends on the bullet), then you have passed the distance where you need to be taking long range shots at big game animals.

Sometimes it's the rifle, sometimes the cartridge, sometimes the ammo, sometimes the sights, sometimes the shooter that becomes the limiting factor.

 

[ringorock]

So how did you come to understand from all this that it was the deer's fault? I don't get it. I have been told that I am pretty dense.

I was making a joke against the 3" margin at 300 yards.