Jerusalem the capital of Israel?

[hobbs27]

so what do you do with the scripture that talks about everlasting punishment?

Matt 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life

Mark 9:43-48 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 44 where ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.’

45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 46 where
‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.’

47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored fire— 48 where ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.’

Rev 20:12- 15 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.gs which were written in the books, according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

there is a multitude of scripture that teaches an eternal punishment after death and rejection of Christ.

You don't just lay in the ground, never to be remember anymore for eternity. Just as in this life, there are everlasting consequences for decisions we make.

Is the death penalty an eternal punishment? I believe it is.

You aught to watch that movie... He11 and Mr. Fudge. Very telling.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Are you saying God has two active covenants with man today, and we can be Christian or Jew and either is OK? ... So much for Jesus being the only way.

Are you saying there is no longer male and female?

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Is the death penalty an eternal punishment? I believe it is.

You aught to watch that movie... He11 and Mr. Fudge. Very telling.

no, death is not the final punishment. Read the verses I quoted. It is plain that those people were living somewhere after they died. and they were sentenced to eternity of punishment.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Pappy.... They did not have a good enough sacrifice to make them pure. They did have a temporary atonement , but until God sent His only begotten Son which was the unblemished lamb, as a sacrifice, eternal life was not known

Praise be to God and His Son, that the old covenant has vanished and the New is established that by His marvelous grace through our faith, we may live forever.

These Jews that don't exist, can they find Jesus if God opens their eyes?

 

[hobbs27]

These Jews that don't exist, can they find Jesus if God opens their eyes?

Their eyes were opened.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

These Jews that don't exist, can they find Jesus if God opens their eyes?

how can they since they don't exist?

 

[NE GA Pappy]

non-existing jews having their non-existing eyes opened

 

[hobbs27]

no, death is not the final punishment. Read the verses I quoted. It is plain that those people were living somewhere after they died. and they were sentenced to eternity of punishment.

No such place as a place of eternal torments.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

No such place as a place of eternal torments.

again... you are delusional

lots and lots of verses that teach that there is a place of eternal punishment that goes on forever and ever.

if that ain't eternal, I don't know what is.

 

[hobbs27]

again... you are delusional

lots and lots of verses that teach that there is a place of eternal punishment that goes on forever and ever.

if that ain't eternal, I don't know what is.

It was tormenting studying this topic a while back and finding out that such a place doesn't exist. I tried really hard to prove he11 exists in scripture... It doesn't, the whole concept was added to Christianity later on... The apostles never mentioned such a place.. Jesus never mentioned such a place ( when His words are actually studied).

Sheol / hades... Both translated as he11, are the same place is. The grave.

Gehenna translated as he11 is an actual place and should have never been translated at all.

and Tartarus is a place angels were bound until the day of judgment... Not a place of eternal torments.

So there you have it, the four words in the Bible translated as he11, and none of them are a place of eternal torments.. Strange huh?

 

[NE GA Pappy]

It was tormenting studying this topic a while back and finding out that such a place doesn't exist. I tried really hard to prove he11 exists in scripture... It doesn't, the whole concept was added to Christianity later on... The apostles never mentioned such a place.. Jesus never mentioned such a place ( when His words are actually studied).

Sheol / hades... Both translated as he11, are the same place is. The grave.

Gehenna translated as he11 is an actual place and should have never been translated at all.

and Tartarus is a place angels were bound until the day of judgment... Not a place of eternal torments.

So there you have it, the four words in the Bible translated as he11, and none of them are a place of eternal torments.. Strange huh?

you have been deceived. I know you won't accept that, but you have been deceived.

and you know that the valley Ge-Hinnom was named that because the jews burned there trash there, and there was a flame that came from the trash pit there day and night. It reminded them of the teachings on Ge-Hinnom and so that is what they called it. It doesn't mean Jesus was referring to that particular valley just to the southwest of Jerusalem.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Their eyes were opened.

Romans 11 tells us a remnant was chosen from physical Israel and the rest of Israel were hardened. They were blind until the full number of Gentiles came in.
“The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

Can we assume the full number of Gentiles came in at 70AD and then at that time God kept his covenant and removed Israels sins? Can we assume that regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs?
That in 70AD God’s gifts and His call were irrevocable?
So that they too then, in 70AD received mercy through the mercy shown to the Gentiles?

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I know another local guy who believes like you do. I believe he is a sincere believer, but on this topic I believe you and he have got it wrong.

I really like the guy, bu he is a nutcase too

 

[hobbs27]

I know another local guy who believes like you do. I believe he is a sincere believer, but on this topic I believe you and he have got it wrong.

I really like the guy, bu he is a nutcase too

I didn't come by this way of thinking easily. It really agonized me, I studied long and hard on it just to prove the opposite of what I concluded. . You should really watch the movie He11 and Mr. Fudge. Or watch some of his YouTube videos with your Bible and commentary. ...The movie is fairly good, but the meat of his studies are on his YouTube videos.
Edward Fudge.. Rethinking he11.


I've now come to the realization that he11 is an added doctrine of pagan origins.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I didn't come by this way of thinking easily. It really agonized me, I studied long and hard on it just to prove the opposite of what I concluded. . You should really watch the movie He11 and Mr. Fudge. Or watch some of his YouTube videos with your Bible and commentary. ...The movie is fairly good, but the meat of his studies are on his YouTube videos.
Edward Fudge.. Rethinking he11.


I've now come to the realization that he11 is an added doctrine of pagan origins.

I have been up and down this dirt road with the local guy for over 4 years now. I have done intense study on eternal punishment, and I am comfortable with the conclusions I have drawn after this study. I looked up the original meanings to the words, the turn of phrase that was used, and the jewish background/understanding of the words used.

If I wasted my time watching Mr Fudge, it wouldn't change my mind. If that is were you want to come down on this belief, so be it. I know what I believe, and why I believe it also.

 

[gordon 2]

Holy Land Christian officials will not meet with Vice Pres. Pence? Wonder why?

 

[hobbs27]

Holy Land Christian officials will not meet with Vice Pres. Pence? Wonder why?

I think most blame Pence for Trumps Jerusalem debacle. Trump has made some good decisions and poor decisions as almost anyone would, but this is the worst decision he's made IMO.

 

[hobbs27]

Romans 11 tells us a remnant was chosen from physical Israel and the rest of Israel were hardened. They were blind until the full number of Gentiles came in.
“The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

Can we assume the full number of Gentiles came in at 70AD and then at that time God kept his covenant and removed Israels sins? Can we assume that regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs?
That in 70AD God’s gifts and His call were irrevocable?
So that they too then, in 70AD received mercy through the mercy shown to the Gentiles?

I'm not assuming anything. Here's what happened. When Paul's ministry to the Gentile had reached its fullness , although it was after Paul's death, the godlessness of Jacob was removed IE.. The judgment on Israel in 70 ad.
The remnant from physical Israel had recognized the signs given to them and fled to the mountains.. Others blinded to the signs, deaf to the Gospel, stayed and paid the price.. They were cut off.

True Israel had a new land, a new priesthood, a new covenant, a spiritual body of believers known as the Church.

 

[gordon 2]

I think most blame Pence for Trumps Jerusalem debacle. Trump has made some good decisions and poor decisions as almost anyone would, but this is the worst decision he's made IMO.

I was not aware of this. What is Pence's connection(s) that he would promote Zionism? Why would he think it was a good policy to get the US Embassy to Jerusalem now?

 

[hobbs27]

I was not aware of this. What is Pence's connection(s) that he would promote Zionism? Why would he think it was a good policy?

Apparently he's an evangelical... Most likely dispensationist which are Christian Zionist.. I'll research that though.