Long range question?

[r_hammett86]

Ok guys, I have decided that I want to build a long range gun. A buddy of mine said to start off with a Rem 700 and build it from there. I'm thinking of going with a .308 cal. but looking around I see alot of $$$ adding up for some stuff. am I over thinking it? of can i go cheaper. What afforadble rifle could i build w/o breaking my bank. Im stepping into this lightly at first. After this build i'll take one and make it a "all out" build if i get the cance to use it like i would need to to continue doing it. So what would be a good .308 i could build off of thats a lil less $$? any help would be greatful. thanks in advance!

 

[chuckdog]

Do you feel like what you have now is holding you back?

I understand the putting something together mode, but I can buy hardware now, that I accept shoots better than I do.

A 700 is definitely the platform I'd use for a custom build, but I've got several factory rifles now that I admit, out shoot me.

 

[r_hammett86]

I have 2 deer rifles a 30-06 and a 30-30. therest of my guns are shot gun or muzzle loaders. But the 30-06 is a sportsman78. I don't think i can do much with it. So i was looking to buy a gun to build off of or thats somwhat built, but i'd like to kinda make it my own project vs buying it finished.

 

[deadend]

Why not a 6mm or 6.5 based round? The .243win or .243ai with 105-115's will smoke the .308win ballistically with less recoil and bullet cost.

A 700 in .243 or .7-08 with stock and trigger upgrades covers a bunch of ground.

http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

 

[r_hammett86]

Why not a 6mm or 6.5 based round? The .243win or .243ai with 105-115's will smoke the .308win ballistically with less recoil and bullet cost.

A 700 in .243 or .7-08 with stock and trigger upgrades covers a bunch of ground.

Makes sence. I may varmit hunt with it but mainly it'll be a long rang hobby gun just to shoot to say I can shoot how ever far. Im very interested in 800yrd+ shooting and would like to step into slowly to see how it pans out. so If I can get some Q/A and opinions on stuff maybe i could get into and enjoy it. So if you we're going to build a gun for distance a 7-08 or 243 would hold up to a .308? if so I may look into it. Im very new to balistics and such. Farthest i shoot is 100 yards to sight in. maybe 150 on a deer once ina a while.

 

[rayjay]

Just use the 78 for now. It's a 700 missing a few worthless cosmetic frills. The 30-06 is a fine long range cartridge. It will provide more velocity than the 308. If the 78 uses a std 700 trigger you can get a spring that will get the pull wgt down quite a bit. By using a bbled action you already own you can spend the money you saved on better optics.

 

[r_hammett86]

I didnt realize that. So Will my 78 take a few 700 parts? barrels bolts stocks? Ive looked on Midway but i couldnt find anything. if this is the case maybe I'll stick with the 06 until i get head over heals for all this. Thanks!

 

[safebuilder]

Another option is just to buy a good used 700 in 308 with some of the features (bull brl, trigger, or stock) that you want and go from there. Remington has some decent LR rifles out there with out breaking the bank

 

[deadend]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306625

There's a comparison chart down the page on the link above concerning ballistics between the .243, .260, and .308.

_Bullet_ _BC_ _MV_ 0 200 400 600 800 1000 | YARDS
243WIN 115 DTAC 0.585 3050 > 0.00 1.78 7.49 17.74 33.30 55.08 | wind (inches)
260 140 VLD 0.620 2830 > 0.00 1.87 7.84 18.53 34.71 57.29 | wind (inches)
260 123 0.540 3100 > 0.00 1.89 7.99 19.01 35.86 59.64 | wind (inches)
243WIN 95 VLD 0.514 3150 > 0.00 1.95 8.25 19.68 37.24 62.14 | wind (inches)
.25Spr 115 VLD 0.523 2900 > 0.00 2.16 9.13 21.81 41.30 68.96 | wind (inches)
308 155 LAP 0.508 2900 > 0.00 2.22 9.43 22.58 42.85 71.70 | wind (inches)
308 175 SMK 0.51* 2700 > 0.00 2.53 10.75 25.82 49.27 82.72 | wind (inches)
308 168 SMK 0.46* 2800 > 0.00 2.60 11.24 27.52 53.62 91.86 | wind (inches)

243WIN 115 DTAC 0.585 3050 > 0.00 0.30 1.40 2.90 4.60 6.60 | drop (Qt mil)
260 140 VLD 0.620 2830 > 0.00 0.40 1.70 3.40 5.30 7.60 | drop (Qt mil)
260 123 0.540 3100 > 0.00 0.30 1.40 2.80 4.50 6.60 | drop (Qt mil)
243WIN 95 VLD 0.514 3150 > 0.00 0.30 1.40 2.80 4.40 6.50 | drop (Qt mil)
.25Spr 115 VLD 0.523 2900 > 0.00 0.40 1.70 3.40 5.40 7.80 | drop (Qt mil)
308 155 LAP 0.508 2900 > 0.00 0.40 1.70 3.40 5.50 8.00 | drop (Qt mil)
308 175 SMK 0.51* 2700 > 0.00 0.50 2.00 4.10 6.50 9.60 | drop (Qt mil)
308 168 SMK 0.46* 2800 > 0.00 0.40 1.90 3.90 6.30 9.50 | drop (Qt mil)

243WIN 115 DTAC 0.585 3050 > 3050 2759 2485 2228 1988 1764 | velocity (fps)
260 140 VLD 0.620 2830 > 2830 2567 2319 2086 1868 1665 | velocity (fps)
260 123 0.540 3100 > 3100 2783 2485 2208 1950 1711 | velocity (fps)
243WIN 95 VLD 0.514 3150 > 3150 2814 2500 2208 1937 1687 | velocity (fps)
.25Spr 115 VLD 0.523 2900 > 2900 2585 2292 2020 1768 1540 | velocity (fps)
308 155 LAP 0.508 2900 > 2900 2576 2275 1996 1739 1509 | velocity (fps)
308 175 SMK 0.51* 2700 > 2700 2383 2089 1819 1569 1354 | velocity (fps)
308 168 SMK 0.46* 2800 > 2800 2449 2119 1804 1520 1279 | velocity (fps)

 

[chuckdog]

Nothing wrong with the .308 in my book.

Long range is subjective though, a lot of folks think of 300- 400 yard as long range? Many now, consider that as a starting point.

Before I jumped into a custom build, I'd recommend shooting a few of the newer "precision production rifles". What I considered amazing 30 years ago, ain't that big of a deal now for many production rifles.

A .308 is very comfortable for me, however as mentioned above, you may want to consider some of the smaller bores for precision work?

I've grown very fond of the .243/6mm over the years. I'd still choose a .30 cal. though, I just like a .308!

 

[bosullivan]

If you can take the punishment, just go out and buy a 7mm ultra mag. Flat, powerful, and will drop just about anything. The ballistics dwarf any .308. If your dead set on a .30+ cal, go with the .300 ultra or .375 ultra, but only if you plan on dropping elephant or rhino at 800 yds. I bought a 7mm ultra mag during my time in North Dakota (No trees and a 400yd shot was not uncommon). The problem for me was anticipating the punishing recoil, which translated into poor trigger pull.

 

[deadend]

Laser rangefinders and repeatable turrets negate the need for that much powder.

 

[Flaustin1]

AMEN deadend! Maybe look into the Howa Axioms. They are affordable, look really cool and from what i can tell they are shooters. Then theres always a Savage. Buy a pawn shop beater, have it barrelled in the caliber of your choosing by a reputable maker, then drop it in a quality stock. You can make a pretty good shooter for around a grand. Of course you could just buy a 5R rem, or a Savage LRPV for a little more and be done with it. Just know it is addictive and the small details of trying to load incredibly accurate ammo can . . .no will drive you nuts.

 

[deadend]

http://accurateshooter.net/pix/windchartx580.png

Check wind drift on this chart.

 

[miles58]

I think the best thing you can do right now is to get started loading your own ammo. Virtually no one shooting range shoots factory ammo.

By learning to load you can improve the accuracy of any rifle worth shooting at more than 100 yards. If all you are looking for is 800 yards, then you may not need a custom build. I probably have 10 rifles I could kill deer with at 800 yards. None are customs. You might well find your 78 is capable of the same.

Dave

 

[Rainmaker]

My .02 -

When you say "long range" rig do you mean a rifle dedicated to having fun at the range with the occasional varmint hunting in mind?

If the answer is yes, there is no reason in the world to buy a magnum except for the "I want one" reason. Otherwise - the magnum = more money, more recoil, more noise, more punishment, and less barrel life.

Here's what I recommend:

1. If you have a Dick's Sporting Goods near you they have a Remington 700 ADL camo varmint rifle with heavy 26" barrel and a cheap scope in .243 for $499 plus it comes with a $50 mail in rebate.

2. So now if you buy that rifle you are less than $500 in the rifle. Sometimes, if you watch their sales Dick's has that same rifle for $449 AND they will also have the $50 mail in rebate at the same time. Dang good deal.

3. Buy a EGW 20 moa base. I believe they are $39.

4. You can pick up Burris XTR rings for around $50 to $65 if you shop around.

5. Scope? Depends on your budget.

Here's a few suggestions:

1. SWFA is offering their classic fixed scope this spring in a mil/mil configuration with their patented Quad Mil reticle. $299.00 plus shipping. I would pick up the 12x or 16x.
www.swfa.com

2. Midway USA has the Weaver GrandSlam tactical with mil turrets and mil reticle, second focal plane scope, 3-10 power for $299.00 - also a great scope. Glass is wonderful.

3. If your budget is around $700 to $800 you can get the Weaver Tactical 3-15 edmr reticle, front focal plane, illuminated from SWFA for $699 I believe.

Other than that a Nikon Buckmaster in 4.5-14x40 with side focus and mil dot is a good choice, and Nikon has $50 off right now.

Good luck, and enjoy. BTW, Berger 95gr vld target bullets or Sierra 95gr SMKs would be my choice for that rifle in .243win.

YMMV

 

[cmshoot]

r hammett86, how much money are you looking at investing in your entire rig (rifle, scope, rings, mount, etc)?

I wouldn't say that reloading ammo is a must, depending on what caliber you choose. I use a custom rifle built on a Remington 700 short action in .308. For the past couple of years, I have been too busy to load match quality ammo, so I have been shooting Black Hills 175grn Match. I was wearing out a steel IPSC silhouette at 1450yds with that rifle and ammo. I hit a 10"x17" steel at 1600yds, although I'll factor in a bit of luck on that one.

If you decide to go to something like .260, .243, or any of the uber-magnums, then match quality ammunition is going to be a handloading proposition, for the most part. One of the good things about calibers such as the .308 and .300WinMag is the plethora of match quality factory ammo in a selection of bullet styles and weights.

I've used the .308 Winchester (or 7.62x51mm as I was first exposed to it) since the late 80's: first as a Scout/Sniper in the USMC, then a SWAT Sniper, and now as a hunter/long range shooter/Instructor. It gets the job done, and has been doing so for a very long time. Easy on recoil and noise, can be chambered in a short action, with good overall ballistics. If the vast majority of your shooting is going to be out to 800yds, with occasional forays out to 1000yds and a little beyond, then you'd be hard-pressed to find a better round than the .308. With the right load and right guy behind the trigger, it will take any game in North America.

 

[r_hammett86]

thanks all. all the input has helped out alot. now i have some guns to build.

 

[Desert Rat]

Just get an $80 Mosin-Nagant.
If you want to get accurate at ranges beyond 500 yards, add a scope (or bayonet ).
I like my unscoped Garand and Mosins.
CMP has some nice 1917s in .30-'06. That is the rifle Sgt York carried when he took on the Maxim machine gun. He finished the job with a 1911.
Vasiliy Sietsev made his mark in Russian history with a Mosin 7.62X54r.
The M1/M14 (7.62X61) is known for long ranges, and making holes in oak trees.
The Sprinfield 1903 .308 is known for long range accuracy.
The .30 cal class is known for long range. It's just a matter of package.
The bolt action guns in .303, .308, .30-06 and 7.62X54 practically require a recoil pad if you plan on doing a lot of target shooting.
As for varmint shooting, well, they are good for big ol' Tennessee ground hogs.
I prefer to stay under 150 grain bullet weight with the bolt actions and under 170 in the M1. But I'm just killin' paper.
My son and I also use the Remington 552 at 100 yards.
303 Enfields are all over Georgia for under $300.
My next gun will probably be a 1917.





We need to find a longer range.

 

[r_hammett86]

Ok here is a dumb question. bull barrles and match barrels, what exactly are they for? is it just to help with the heaver load?