No need to fear the hot place? Let me preach on it!

[Ruger#3]

yep - "the world to come" which will be right here on earth (but a better version of it) where Jews can focus completely on Jewish religious related study & work and of course praising the god that lets you live there. Not exactly a paradise that's for sure, but the alternative is being destroyed/ceasing to exist, which is pretty fair & reasonable IMHO.

It’s the current home of God as they celebrate him. That ain’t here.

 

[Spotlite]

yep - "the world to come" which will be right here on earth (but a better version of it) where Jews can focus completely on Jewish religious related study & work and of course praising the god that lets you live there. Not exactly a paradise that's for sure, but the alternative is being destroyed/ceasing to exist, which is pretty fair & reasonable IMHO.

Sumtin tells me this a little deeper than than preaching there is no fear of the hot place........

Seems as if there is a little heart burn about the "fairness" or the deserving part..................just because you did not seek out God. There are many Christians that feel that it is a little extreme if that is all you are guilty of. In my small human mind I can not comprehend the justification of it and trust that being a "Just God" will not send anyone undeserving there. Now, what is deserving and undeserving? Not my cup of tea - all I know is what I believe it takes to get a ticket the opposite direction of the hot place.

 

[oldfella1962]

Sumtin tells me this a little deeper than than preaching there is no fear of the hot place........

Seems as if there is a little heart burn about the "fairness" or the deserving part..................just because you did not seek out God. There are many Christians that feel that it is a little extreme if that is all you are guilty of. In my small human mind I can not comprehend the justification of it and trust that being a "Just God" will not send anyone undeserving there. Now, what is deserving and undeserving? Not my cup of tea - all I know is what I believe it takes to get a ticket the opposite direction of the hot place.

No heartburn here, just fascination with the human belief in religion. That said, figured out that "fairness" - as any typical human would think of fairness - isn't in the Christian god's job description. And seeking out a god that would torture humans for eternity just because they didn't seek out a god that tortures humans doesn't add up to rational thinking. "Worship me or be tortured" sounds like something in a psychopath's manifesto.

I guess the biggest unanswered question is this: shouldn't the god worshipped be of higher moral standards than the worshipers?

 

[Ruger#3]

No heartburn here, just fascination with the human belief in religion. That said, figured out that "fairness" - as any typical human would think of fairness - isn't in the Christian god's job description. And seeking out a god that would torture humans for eternity just because they didn't seek out a god that tortures humans doesn't add up to rational thinking. "Worship me or be tortured" sounds like something in a psychopath's manifesto.

I guess the biggest unanswered question is this: shouldn't the god worshipped be of higher moral standards than the worshipers?

It’s kinda like your car it starts or it don’t. In between is pretty worthless. You believe and are rewarded or dont and reap what you sow. One the worst sins is to mock God.

He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

 

[Spotlite]

No heartburn here, just fascination with the human belief in religion. That said, figured out that "fairness" - as any typical human would think of fairness - isn't in the Christian god's job description. And seeking out a god that would torture humans for eternity just because they didn't seek out a god that tortures humans doesn't add up to rational thinking. "Worship me or be tortured" sounds like something in a psychopath's manifesto.

I guess the biggest unanswered question is this: shouldn't the god worshipped be of higher moral standards than the worshipers?

You know I’m a believer but I’ll be neutral for a minute, or try to be.

If there is a God, higher power, supreme being, etc,. that created everything I’d have to at a minimum believe that “it” is above anything we humans could measure as right, moral, standard, or ethical. I don’t think “it” is limited or bound to anything a human can comprehend as right or wrong.

That’d be like the baby correcting the Mama.

 

[brutally honest]

You know I’m a believer but I’ll be neutral for a minute, or try to be.

If there is a God, higher power, supreme being, etc,. that created everything I’d have to at a minimum believe that “it” is above anything we humans could measure as right, moral, standard, or ethical. I don’t think “it” is limited or bound to anything a human can comprehend as right or wrong.

That’d be like the baby correcting the Mama.

Beat me to it. Good answer.

 

[oldfella1962]

so let me see if I'm tracking here: humans can't understand god, so god gets a pass on any horrific, vengeful, violent behavior that he tells humans not to do. MIGHT MAKES RIGHT so you better learn to love god, because he has the power to torture you if you don't.

 

[Spotlite]

so let me see if I'm tracking here: humans can't understand god, so god gets a pass on any horrific, vengeful, violent behavior that he tells humans not to do. MIGHT MAKES RIGHT so you better learn to love god, because he has the power to torture you if you don't.

Read it again. WHO is going to give God a pass?

 

[NE GA Pappy]

God is the ultimate divider of truth and untruth. He only sees righteousness or sin. There is no in between. No gray areas exist with Him. You are either redeemed and holy, or a condemned sinner.

It is your choice. God is not forcing you to believe or accept Him. He is only telling you your choices and allowing you to choose for yourself. Just like some people who have to test every limit to see if what they have been told, there are a lot of folk that will spend eternity in the hot spot because they really don't believe that God will not tolerate any sin to pollute heaven.

This is the reason that Satan was exiled from heaven when he convinced a 1/3 of the angels that he and they could be like God. Satan rebelled against God's laws, and was offered no chance at repentance. We have an offer of the gift of everlasting life. Your choice.

As Joshua said in Chapter 24, Choose you this day who you will serve. As for me and my house, we will serve God.

 

[bullethead]

God is the ultimate divider of truth and untruth. He only sees righteousness or sin. There is no in between. No gray areas exist with Him. You are either redeemed and holy, or a condemned sinner.

It is your choice. God is not forcing you to believe or accept Him. He is only telling you your choices and allowing you to choose for yourself. Just like some people who have to test every limit to see if what they have been told, there are a lot of folk that will spend eternity in the hot spot because they really don't believe that God will not tolerate any sin to pollute heaven.

This is the reason that Satan was exiled from heaven when he convinced a 1/3 of the angels that he and they could be like God. Satan rebelled against God's laws, and was offered no chance at repentance. We have an offer of the gift of everlasting life. Your choice.

As Joshua said in Chapter 24, Choose you this day who you will serve. As for me and my house, we will serve God.

The perception of the God of Abraham would make it seem that he would have known Lucifer's intentions before Lucifer was created and/or Lucifer was created for that very purpose.
Otherwise it sounds like a lot of soap opera drama in Heaven.

 

[oldfella1962]

Read it again. WHO is going to give God a pass?

Everybody who excuses god's violence & cruelty as just god working in mysterious ways.

 

[oldfella1962]

God is the ultimate divider of truth and untruth. He only sees righteousness or sin. There is no in between. No gray areas exist with Him. You are either redeemed and holy, or a condemned sinner.

It is your choice. God is not forcing you to believe or accept Him. He is only telling you your choices and allowing you to choose for yourself. Just like some people who have to test every limit to see if what they have been told, there are a lot of folk that will spend eternity in the hot spot because they really don't believe that God will not tolerate any sin to pollute heaven.

This is the reason that Satan was exiled from heaven when he convinced a 1/3 of the angels that he and they could be like God. Satan rebelled against God's laws, and was offered no chance at repentance. We have an offer of the gift of everlasting life. Your choice.

As Joshua said in Chapter 24, Choose you this day who you will serve. As for me and my house, we will serve God.

God doesn't want sinners "crashing the party" so they don't get in? They don't get everlasting life? I have no problem with that - it seems perfectly fair & logical. Eternal torture because your only sin was not wanting to come to the party, or not even being aware of the party, or maybe there's another party (Hindu, Buddhist, Islam, Judaism, etc) you would rather attend? I can't condone eternal torture under any circumstances, let alone for just having a difference of opinion. Just my personal moral compass, I guess.

 

[oldfella1962]

"It is your choice. God is not forcing you to believe or accept Him. He is only telling you your choices and allowing you to choose for yourself. "

Pepsi or Coke is a choice. "Love me or I torture you" is an ultimatum. Using fear to win adoration says a lot about a deity is all I'm saying.

 

[oldfella1962]

The perception of the God of Abraham would make it seem that he would have known Lucifer's intentions before Lucifer was created and/or Lucifer was created for that very purpose.
Otherwise it sounds like a lot of soap opera drama in Heaven.

God does seem to be caught by surprise a lot, especially in the Old Testament.

 

[Spotlite]

Everybody who excuses god's violence & cruelty as just god working in mysterious ways.

Good point but are they really excusing Him for His benefit or theirs?

 

[Ruger#3]

One has to lay the giant ego down that assumes they can comprehend everything about a power that created the universe. Humbling one’s self is part of the bargain. God is very loving. For all our shortfalls there’s a way to eternal life. If your arrogant enough to mock that God expect no mercy.

 

[livinoutdoors]

One has to lay the giant ego down that assumes they can comprehend everything about a power that created the universe. Humbling one’s self is part of the bargain. God is very loving. For all our shortfalls there’s a way to eternal life. If your arrogant enough to mock that God expect no mercy.

And yet there are many arrogant men who believe themselves saved because they accept god as their lord, yet follow not a single word or intent of the teachings. What is in a man heart matters more than words i think.

 

[Ruger#3]

And yet there are many arrogant men who believe themselves saved because they accept god as their lord, yet follow not a single word or intent of the teachings. What is in a man heart matters more than words i think.

Did such a man truly accept God?

 

[livinoutdoors]

Did such a man truly accept God?

Dunno? Letter of the laws says he did.

 

[bullethead]

One has to lay the giant ego down that assumes they can comprehend everything about a power that created the universe. Humbling one’s self is part of the bargain. God is very loving. For all our shortfalls there’s a way to eternal life. If your arrogant enough to mock that God expect no mercy.

Is that ego anywhere near the size of someone who thinks that they not only know the unknowable but also assumes that they are in an exclusive club because they are somehow more liked and have been chosen by the unknowable ?