North Georgia Deer Study

[Wifeshusband]

And they didn't have coyotes in the southeast either. . . . and getting rid of the wolf and cougar obviously benefitted whitetails, but the pendulum is
swinging back. These critters are taking a lot more fawns then people think.

 

[ddd-shooter]

And they didn't have coyotes in the southeast either. . . . and getting rid of the wolf and cougar obviously benefitted whitetails, but the pendulum is
swinging back. These critters are taking a lot more fawns then people think.

But they had red wolves...

 

[across the river]

You realize that's not how your post was worded. You said quit fussing about what the dnr is doing and now this post tells us how to tell the dnr what to do...lol
I've done all of those things, repeatedly.

Why are you ok with YOUR public lands being devoid of game simply because you have spent money on some land elsewhere?
Personally, I want public lands across the country restored to their potential.

What do you mean how it was worded? I never said anything specifically about public land to begin with, you did, and just because you can't burn public land or cut trees donesn't mean you can't make an effort. I get you options on public land are limited, but I provided you with multiple things you could do yourself. Volunteering has nothing to do with telling the DNR what to do. The GA DNR also has no control over cutting the National forests, so the Georgia DNR has nothing to do with "habitat" in the nation forest most of you keep fussing about anyway, the USDA does. You all also keep fussing about the deer limit and doe days. I'm not saying contacting elected officals or going to the DNR meeting will guarantee you get what you want, but it will do more than simply coming on this forum and fussing.

I get the dilemma. I duck hunted Clarks Hill for many, many years. It got crowded with most everywhere else, and then they decided that no bald eagles could die, so they "grass carped" the hydrilla out of it to put the nail in the coffin. I went to the DNR meetings before they did it, contacted elected officials to voice my concern. It didn't change anything, but I don't think I have the right to complain if I didn't make any effort begin with. Ultimately, I could sit around and mope because it wasn't "what it used to be" from a hunting aspect, or I could do something for myself. Went the later route ,and I got own private place to duck hunt and deer hunters well. I would recommend you do the same. LOL if you want to, but I won't be the one on here complaining about not seeing deer this time next year. Ducks maybe, but the DNR doesn't have anything to do with the migration.

 

[antharper]

About 10 years of so ago in a area on national forest I seen first hand what was going on. Could have been 12 to 14 years ago but no longer. That area along with a lot of other national forest had a ton of deer. Use to see 10 to 15 on a good hunt. This was big woods timber also by the the way. I came out early around 10 in the morning and on my way up the mountain I came across a truck and a guy just had loaded a doe into it. Asked how he did and he replied he had a great morning. Was waiting on help to retrieve the 4 other does he killed that morning. His story lines up with the shots I heard. During that same time frame, a now retired game warden told me of a Mexican guy that would come up from Atlanta area each doe day. He would write him tickets every year from no licence to over the limit to no Orange and on and on. Said one year he had over 2k in fines. Said he hunted that same spot and killed 8 or 10 deer that he knew of out of that one area for several years until they wasn't enough to hunt. That's just 2 cases that was happening across the whole national forest. During that time frame, the bear population has been booming so now here we are today and we will stay here until either we have more deer brought in or predator numbers knocked back so the deer can rebound. Timber has not changed that much in the last 20 years. 20 years ago there was at least 2 to 3 times as much deer as they are now. Bear population is at least 2 or 3 times higher than it was 20 years ago. No there ain't the deer there was back years ago when all the clear cuts were going on but with the habitat we have now, there's absolutely no reason we can't have at least twice as many deer as we have now. How come we can't stock some deer? We've spent no telling how much money in the last 3 years researching what the fawn survival rate was. And if it was volunteered help I'm can promise there would be enough volunteer help to restock. Let's do something instead of talking about it!

I’d gladly donate a few .

 

[GSPEED]

Who said to you have to "disturb" anything on public land. There are plenty of things you can do to work on improving habitat on public ground, which I am certain you have done.

You no doubt know about opportunities to volunteer and have done so.
https://georgiawildlife.com/about/volunteer

And I am sure you have attended these meetings to offer input on cutting to improve habitat.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detailfull/conf/home/?cid=stelprdb5261231&width=full

And you will no doubt be attending one or more of these meetings.
https://georgiawildlife.com/regulations/meetings

And I am absolutely certain that you have contacted the individuals on this list with your concerns.
http://www.house.ga.gov/Committees/en-US/committee.aspx?Committee=98&Session=27

Or you can just keep moaning and complaining and waiting on the DNR or forestry services, or whomever else to fix it for you, as long as you don't have to do anything to contribute yourself. Then you can just keep complaining and complaining for years to come, and wondering why it never gets any better and you don't have a jam up place to go kill a deer anytime you want to.

Or do like many of the rest of us did, and lease or save up to get you own little piece of land that you can work on and "disturb" all you want.

Just my opinion but I don’t think anything is going to change. Helped with planting grass patches a few years ago and didn’t take long for us to figure out all we were doing was helping the poachers since we don’t have any law enforcement for game. Didn’t take but a few meetings to see that they had already made there decision before any meetings took place. Habitat isn’t as bad as it’s made out to be and predators wouldn’t have so much of an impact if we hadn’t killed the herd down so far. It’s not our job to do there job that they get paid for with money hunters have spent on hunting. About all that is left to do is complain. Not sure why you’re so passionate about this as you aren’t hunting here or don’t live here to see the difference of how much it’s changed for the worse. Again there was 191 deer reported on game check in our county that’s 60-70% public land and there was only one county in the state that had fewer, try hunting that for the last 10-15 years and see if you wouldn’t be complaining. No North Georgia has never had a large population of deer and never will now because of what has took place with the deer management plan 2004-2015. It is public land and you’re welcome to come up and prove me wrong. Was in hunting clubs for over 20 years, too much money,too far to drive and too much drama and me along with a lot of hunters can’t or will not spend that kind of money just to hunt when we should be able to hunt public land that’s close to home that is supposed to be for us and was at one time.

 

[bigblocktransam]

Just my opinion but I don’t think anything is going to change. Helped with planting grass patches a few years ago and didn’t take long for us to figure out all we were doing was helping the poachers since we don’t have any law enforcement for game. Didn’t take but a few meetings to see that they had already made there decision before any meetings took place. Habitat isn’t as bad as it’s made out to be and predators wouldn’t have so much of an impact if we hadn’t killed the herd down so far. It’s not our job to do there job that they get paid for with money hunters have spent on hunting. About all that is left to do is complain. Not sure why you’re so passionate about this as you aren’t hunting here or don’t live here to see the difference of how much it’s changed for the worse. Again there was 191 deer reported on game check in our county that’s 60-70% public land and there was only one county in the state that had fewer, try hunting that for the last 10-15 years and see if you wouldn’t be complaining. No North Georgia has never had a large population of deer and never will now because of what has took place with the deer management plan 2004-2015. It is public land and you’re welcome to come up and prove me wrong. Was in hunting clubs for over 20 years, too much money,too far to drive and too much drama and me along with a lot of hunters can’t or will not spend that kind of money just to hunt when we should be able to hunt public land that’s close to home that is supposed to be for us and was at one time.

Unfortunately all you’ll catch here is flak. So much I’d love to say, but the know it alls come along and chime in telling you how your wrong about everything.

 

[ddd-shooter]

Yeah it has to change at the federal level.
Wildlife has to be a priority to the feds so they'll manage it as such.
I mean, who goes to public lands and DOESN'T want to see abundant wildlife?
Until education improves in the "Environmentalist" mentality, they'll continue to push for old growth timber as the be all and end all to forest management.
Which we all know is why the wildfires are worse and the wildlife is scarce.

 

[mallardsx2]

Shut down the doe season (Including the archery doe harvest) in all of North GA and start allowing hunting bears with dogs for the entire season across all of North GA and people should start killing every coyote they see while hunting.

Then re-evaluate the situation in 5 years. If its not too late already.

 

[NCHillbilly]

But they had red wolves...

And timber wolves in the mountains.

 

[Danuwoa]

The dreaded C word is in order here. Compromise. The problem is nobody wants to do that. Every little individual group wa to it all their way.

 

[Joe Brandon]

This has been a great thread. A few have mentioned Warwomen as a prime example of what the mountains have potential for. I want to point out that Warwoman is on the side of a mountain that runs down to an extremely fertile valley that has been farmed for hundreds of years. The valley is nothing but lush farm land all the way to the river. It has a ton of the minerals and food that deer need to thrive and sustain. I'm sure the game management is great there as well as I have spoken to the warden there a couple of times, but I think the unique environment has been the primary contributor.

 

[NGA44]

This has been a great thread. A few have mentioned Warwomen as a prime example of what the mountains have potential for. I want to point out that Warwoman is on the side of a mountain that runs down to an extremely fertile valley that has been farmed for hundreds of years. The valley is nothing but lush farm land all the way to the river. It has a ton of the minerals and food that deer need to thrive and sustain. I'm sure the game management is great there as well as I have spoken to the warden there a couple of times, but I think the unique environment has been the primary contributor.

I saw one small corn field yesterday when I drove down Warwoman Rd? There’s a few fields with cows in them but I wouldn’t exactly call it ‘extremely fertile’. It’s no different than any other developed mountain valley. Hardly any crops other than hay are grown in the Warwoman Creek valley.

 

[Joe Brandon]

I saw one small corn field yesterday when I drove down Warwoman Rd? There’s a few fields with cows in them but I wouldn’t exactly call it ‘extremely fertile’. It’s no different than any other developed mountain valley. Hardly any crops other than hay are grown in the Warwoman Creek valley.

Well you and I are seeing things a little different and that's okay makes life intresting. I would also call Sautee Valley very fertile. Not all valleys are them same because of many geological and environmental issues.

 

[NGA44]

Well you and I are seeing things a little different and that's okay makes life intresting. I would also call Sautee Valley very fertile. Not all valleys are them same because of many geological and environmental issues.

I agree, no problem having different viewpoints. I just have lived in the area my whole life.

I lived most of my life the next valley over from Warwoman and it doesn’t have anything special that other areas don’t have. There’s an extremely small amount of agriculture that happens there. It’s no different than the tons of other valleys that border WMAs and NF all across north Georgia.

I just don’t think the problem is related to habitat as much as it is predators like others have said in this thread already.

 

[tr21]

Just my opinion but I don’t think anything is going to change. Helped with planting grass patches a few years ago and didn’t take long for us to figure out all we were doing was helping the poachers since we don’t have any law enforcement for game. Didn’t take but a few meetings to see that they had already made there decision before any meetings took place. Habitat isn’t as bad as it’s made out to be and predators wouldn’t have so much of an impact if we hadn’t killed the herd down so far. It’s not our job to do there job that they get paid for with money hunters have spent on hunting. About all that is left to do is complain. Not sure why you’re so passionate about this as you aren’t hunting here or don’t live here to see the difference of how much it’s changed for the worse. Again there was 191 deer reported on game check in our county that’s 60-70% public land and there was only one county in the state that had fewer, try hunting that for the last 10-15 years and see if you wouldn’t be complaining. No North Georgia has never had a large population of deer and never will now because of what has took place with the deer management plan 2004-2015. It is public land and you’re welcome to come up and prove me wrong. Was in hunting clubs for over 20 years, too much money,too far to drive and too much drama and me along with a lot of hunters can’t or will not spend that kind of money just to hunt when we should be able to hunt public land that’s close to home that is supposed to be for us and was at one time.

g speed has the answer, hear shots all hours of the night, all year. the poor deer dont have a chance. but they still do manage to make it, on my way to work friday morning saw over 6 in the first 2 miles, so some are hear. dont blame the animal predators, blame the human one's. i dont deer hunt so i have no skin in the game, but did go to a dnr meeting a few years ago in young harris to express my opinion on turkey season. all i heard, was all those people are coming up here from atl and shooting all our deer. after awhile i started laughing, was asked why i laughed, i turned around winking and said "if it's brown it's down" and "target practice in the middle of the night" yea it's the guy's from atl killing all your deer ! but understand there are many people born and raised up here that barely have a dime and were raised going out and killing something to eat or starve, never had a regular job and never will, they just poor! their good people, wouldn't steal a thing from you, but need to eat! it's the way they were born and raised" off the grid"

 

[mtcur]

I live next to 3-4 thousand acres a USFS land in Habersham and see it every year. Starts in spring with 2-3 does. They have 4-5 fawns most live through the summer. Start of deer season with about 6-7 deer. End of season with 2-3 does. Did not change until last year with no doe days. Ended this year with 5-6 deer so stopping doe days has helped from what I have seen. I know the deer come and go but that is just average of that I see around the house.
Another thing I've noticed is the hunters. (I go out most mornings to take my Grandson to school). I would guess around 8-10 people hunt on the 1/2 mile dirt road that goes to my house and 2-3 of them hunt hard. Most hunt the 200-300 acres next to the road. If a buck skins a tree there is a good chance 2-3 people will be hunting him and with the season lasting 4 months he has a slim chance and it was the same with the doe.
If a turkey gobbles that you can hear from the road 80-90% chance he will die.

This is not hard facts just guesstimates

 

[GSPEED]

Not trying to start another argument but Warwoman is a gar hole and if this is the best we’ve got in North Georgia we’re in bad shape. Killed my first deer with a bow there and still go and walk around and still love the place but didn’t see a deer there the last 10-12 times I hunted there. Don’t remember the year but at one time it was rated the best archery WMA by gon then the DNR started having doe days on the rifle hunts and kept them till there was nothing left. They even had a January hunt that it was the only thing open in North Georgia and over 1100 hunters checked in on the first hunt and killed less than 10 deer and this was so good that had for a few more years till everyone figured it out and stopped going and yes it was doe day the last day. Did the same thing with Lake Burton and then closed it along with Colman River and I guess this is the same story on most of our WMAS. None of this has anything to do with habitat or predators. Every WMA has had a sign in sheet and a kill sheet on them on every hunt they have ever had so these were the best study’s you could possibly have and if they couldn’t look at these numbers and see hunters and deer kills declining what good is a fawn study. They stopped having doe days probably about 8 years ago on Warwoman and the deer haven’t made much of a comeback or on any of our other WMAS and probably can’t.