Question for the true believers.

[jollyroger]

Didnt anyone live by such standards before the stories in the NT were written?

I like your question, and it's made me think about another one.

When did humans begin living to the standards outlined in the Bible?

The far more ancient code of Hamurabi comes to mind, but can we go even further back?

We have discovered sites that pre-date Babylonian society that show evidence of cultural cooperation, namely Gobekli Tepi.

But I still want to go even further back, could it have something to do with our rise to higher consciousness?

I guess one would have to subscribe to the theory of evolution in order to think we were anything but homo sapien sapien in our current form.

Evolutionary theory has it's share of issues, but it's still pretty solid regardless.

Did morals arise alongside consciousness?

Did it appear when we became aware of ourselves?

Did it arise out of a need for resources?

Did we figure out that we can take down a wooly mammoth better, and feed more people easier, if we work together than if we try and fight each other?

 

[bullethead]

I like your question, and it's made me think about another one.

When did humans begin living to the standards outlined in the Bible?

The far more ancient code of Hamurabi comes to mind, but can we go even further back?

We have discovered sites that pre-date Babylonian society that show evidence of cultural cooperation, namely Gobekli Tepi.

But I still want to go even further back, could it have something to do with our rise to higher consciousness?

I guess one would have to subscribe to the theory of evolution in order to think we were anything but homo sapien sapien in our current form.

Evolutionary theory has it's share of issues, but it's still pretty solid regardless.

Did morals arise alongside consciousness?

Did it appear when we became aware of ourselves?

Did it arise out of a need for resources?

Did we figure out that we can take down a wooly mammoth better, and feed more people easier, if we work together than if we try and fight each other?

Very few humans live to the standards set forth by religious figures. Those figures are there for an example, hope, an idol. In reality when push comes to shove "we" are all animals and will do whatever that we feel necessary at the time regardless of some "super version of us" as told in many religious tales.
What you question above is a great example of why morals are an ever adapting set of personal beliefs which are guided by many influential factors. We were not poofed here with a set of ingrained knowledge of right and wrong, good or bad. Those things evolved over time from pre-human ancestors and we built upon them as we went. All social animals have rules and pecking orders.

 

[j_seph]

I'm reading a book written by Penn Jillette(Penn & Teller) who is an outspoken atheist.

In his book he has a question he asks theists.

"If God demanded that you kill your children, would you kill them?"

His take away that if you would not kill your children, you are an atheist.

Would you kill your children if God demanded that you do?

It comes to mind on this, those that do not believe, that teach their children God does not exist. Without the hope that their children one day see the light then their children being raised the same. By ones disbelief alone how many of their children and their childrens children have they already killed? They say they would not sacrifice their child yet they already are and have sacrificed them.

 

[Spotlite]

It comes to mind on this, those that do not believe, that teach their children God does not exist. Without the hope that their children one day see the light then their children being raised the same. By ones disbelief alone how many of their children and their childrens children have they already killed? They say they would not sacrifice their child yet they already are and have sacrificed them.

I get what you’re saying but a counter to that can be from the non believers view that to participate in “religion” would be sacrificing their children - the light to see is to use reason and logic and stop believing in fairytales.

The reason I say that is because I’ve heard it from my cousin so this may not represent every non-believer.

For the record THAT’S ^^^^my stance on anything that someone says they were born “this way”. Outside of something physical, it’s the influence from the way you’re raised - just my opinion.

 

[jollyroger]

There is also the aspect that knowledge is forbidden.

This notion is not only in the OT, but in many other mythos that predate it.

Prometheus stealing the secret of fire (knowledge) from the gods comes to mind.

If one corporation (religion) holds the patent on knowledge, and preaches that such knowledge is forbidden and counter to God's will, then who is really at the controls?

I dont outright dismiss the Bible, in fact I think the answers are hidden inside of it if one knows where to look, we are just translating it incorrectly; or rather egotistically.

We scoff at the silly beliefs of the ancients and the pantheon of gods they used to make sense of the universe and creation, but is not the Bible just another iteration of this?

 

[Spotlite]

There is also the aspect that knowledge is forbidden.

This notion is not only in the OT, but in many other mythos that predate it.

Prometheus stealing the secret of fire (knowledge) from the gods comes to mind.

If one corporation (religion) holds the patent on knowledge, and preaches that such knowledge is forbidden and counter to God's will, then who is really at the controls?

I dont outright dismiss the Bible, in fact I think the answers are hidden inside of it if one knows where to look, we are just translating it incorrectly; or rather egotistically.

We scoff at the silly beliefs of the ancients and the pantheon of gods they used to make sense of the universe and creation, but is not the Bible just another iteration of this?

Depends on which side of the fence you’re on. It’s both “believed” yes and no.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Yeah I hate them. I think I may be a combination of most all them so not sure what label that would be. I guess I most identify with Agnostic if I have to choose just one.
I'm probably the furthest away from Antitheist. I dont have a problem with religion itself however I do think organized religion has some very toxic qualities and has probably polluted the whole shebang.

Sign, sign
Everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery
Breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign?

 

[jollyroger]

Sign, sign
Everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery
Breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign?

Tesla did it better than 5 Man

 

[WaltL1]

It comes to mind on this, those that do not believe, that teach their children God does not exist. Without the hope that their children one day see the light then their children being raised the same. By ones disbelief alone how many of their children and their childrens children have they already killed? They say they would not sacrifice their child yet they already are and have sacrificed them.

Meh...
Parents who dont believe have raised kids who have become believers later in life.
Parents who do believe have raised kids who have become nonbelievers later in life.
Darndest thing about kids is at some point in life they use their own brain regardless of what you teach them.
Hence the phrase we have all heard before..... I didnt raise you/him/her like that!
And lets not forget the nonbeliever parents who allow their kid(s) to go to church etc. with their believer friends.

 

[WaltL1]

Tesla did it better than 5 Man

Bite your tongue!

 

[j_seph]

Meh...
Parents who dont believe have raised kids who have become believers later in life.
Parents who do believe have raised kids who have become nonbelievers later in life.
Darndest thing about kids is at some point in life they use their own brain regardless of what you teach them.
Hence the phrase we have all heard before..... I didnt raise you/him/her like that!
And lets not forget the nonbeliever parents who allow their kid(s) to go to church etc. with their believer friends.

I love it when those last kids you mentioned discover the truth and go home saved, Amen

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Tesla did it better than 5 Man

Whelp. There went your credibility.