THE FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD by A.W. Pink

[rjcruiser]

No, the Bible clearly states that you must accept the free gift God has offered.

But if His death covered all of the sins of the World, why would I have to accept it? Eternal death/H E L L is payment for sins. Whether I accept it or not, based upon Vernon's interpretation of John 2:2, the whole Worlds' sins are covered by the blood of Jesus.


I know I'm playing devils advocate here, but I'm trying to prove a point.

 

[rjcruiser]

It is symbolism. God wants you, the devil wants you, and you get to cast the deciding vote.

How can I cast a vote that is a good vote or the right vote in God's eyes?

Rom 3:10-18
10as it is written,
"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
13"THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,"
"THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
14"WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
15"THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
18"THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

 

[Double Barrel BB]

Rom 3:10-18
10as it is written,
"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
13"THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,"
"THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
14"WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
15"THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
18"THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Spotlite]

That is a very very blasphemous saying. Let me repeat, BLASPHEMOUS.

You say God has a vote, Satan has a vote and you have a vote. If you truly believe this, you believe that Satan is as powerful as God and you are as powerful as God.

If that is what you believe, you have raised yourself to the level of God, which surely will not get you to heaven.

I serve an awesome God who is Omnipotent and can do as He pleases. If He chooses to pluck me from the pits of Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- and free me of my sin burden, He can do so. If He chooses to be fair and judge me for the sins I've committed, He can do so. To God be the Glory that He has chosen me to serve Him and trust in Him.

You really need to read more Bible, Satan makes accusations against you all the time, and thats scripture. And calm down, I think your all jacked up on Mountain Dew.

 

[rjcruiser]

You really need to read more Bible, Satan makes accusations against you all the time, and thats scripture. And calm down, I think your all jacked up on Mountain Dew.

Nope...don't do the dew.

I'm not saying that Satan makes accusations all the time. I agree...see Job for an example. The issue is that the story that Vernon referenced makes it out that there are three votes....all having equal power. We all know that our vote and Satan's vote are worthless compared to God's vote. God is omnipotent...we/satan are not. Again...see Job. Satan had to ask God if he could "torture" Job.

 

[Smithstill77]

if we are dead in sin. and dead means dead. then how can we do
anything but be dead. Can a dead man choose?????

 

[ambush80]

We all know that our vote and Satan's vote are worthless compared to God's vote. God is omnipotent...we/satan are not. Again...see Job. Satan had to ask God if he could "torture" Job.

Is that complicity on god's part?

 

[PWalls]

How can I cast a vote that is a good vote or the right vote in God's eyes?

Rom 3:10-18
10as it is written,
"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
13"THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,"
"THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
14"WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
15"THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
18"THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

The answer to your question is that I believe before you can cast that vote you refer to, the Holy Spirit has to bring you to that point of conviction and confession and repetence. The Holy Spirit works on the unregenerate to bring them to the point of committment.

No lost person is going to make a committment to Salvation out of the blue without hearing the word and having been convicted by the Holy Spirit. I have never heard that doctrine preached nor do I believe in it. Before I could make any sort of decision, I had to be SHOWN how bad I was and understand where I was going. It took God to show me that. God showed me what was wrong and where I needed to be. He enabled me to make that decision.

 

[Vernon Holt]

Foreknowledge

"That is a very very blasphemous saying. Let me repeat, BLASPHEMOUS."

My friend, please allow me to say that you are a bit presumptous, to say nothing of being judgmental.

I suggest that you go back and read the post again. Perhaps you will then get the gist of the simple little story. The old Pastor was simply saying that God in his own way, and at some point in a person's life make an appeal to him to accept the way of salvation. At the same time satan and his angels are likewise making an appeal for men to follow him.

The entire matter is resolved by man himself who makes the choice as to whether he will devote his life to serving God, or whether he will choose satan.

If you have trouble understanding this, let me know and I will try again.

 

[rjcruiser]

The problem is that you can't explain the doctrine of election or the false doctrine of free will in a simple little story. By doing so, you've reduced God down to the same level as Satan and mankind...or raised up man and Satan to God's level. Both not good things to do.

So no, I'm sorry, call me simple-minded, but I don't get the gist of the simple little story.

Here is a link to the Canons of Dordt. http://www.reformed.org/documents/i...w.reformed.org/documents/canons_of_dordt.html

For a little history lesson, it was a reply to rise of Arminianism (specifically the 5 points of Arminianism). I think it would be profitable for you to read the canons as it is quite well put together (back in 1618-1619)

 

[farmasis]

I believe I would rather rely on a Souveriegn God to choose me, than rely on myself to choose Him.

DB BB

He did choose you, as he did ALL of the world. Now, it is HIS will that we choose him. No offense, but what you would rather have happen is not important.

 

[Vernon Holt]

Foreknowledge

"So since His death covered the sins of the whole world, does that mean the whole world is going to heaven?"

Seems like a rather "far out" question since most people believe that most people of the world will remain lost to the end.

I am not a universalist and have never met a universalist.

I am willing to accept the words of Christ who made this statement in Rev. 3:20: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and sup with him, and he with me".

I happen to believe that the shed blood of Christ is sufficent to save the entire world, if they only would hear his voice, and open the door of their heart.

I have heard it said many times that in order to believe Hyper Calvinism, one must be taught the doctrines. I happen to be one of those who never had such a mentor, and thus had to depend upon God's word for my instruction.

 

[farmasis]

But if His death covered all of the sins of the World, why would I have to accept it? Eternal death/H E L L is payment for sins. Whether I accept it or not, based upon Vernon's interpretation of John 2:2, the whole Worlds' sins are covered by the blood of Jesus.


I know I'm playing devils advocate here, but I'm trying to prove a point.

Because the Bible states that therefore there is NO condemnation to those in Christ. Therefore, if we are not in Christ there will be condemnation.
Did Jesus's death cover the sins of the world? Kinda. God has made the provision, the propeciation that all of the sins of the world can be covered if we accept the deity of Christ as explained in the Bible. All of the world's sins could be forgiven, if it asked for forgiveness and to take Jesus into their heart and repent.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18)

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o>I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. And if anyone hears My words and does not believe,<SUP>[i]</SUP> I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. (John 12:46-48)<o></o>
</o>

 

[farmasis]

How can I cast a vote that is a good vote or the right vote in God's eyes?

You don't think choosing righteousness is good? It is God's will that we should choose him.

This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:39-40)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

Rom 3:10-18
10as it is written,
"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
13"THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,"
"THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
14"WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
15"THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
18"THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

That is a great example of how we cannot be saved under law. Are you taking the part about none that seeks God out of context and using that to justify your view? If so, I suggest that you look at the original scripture that was quoted and is found in Psalms 53.

 

[farmasis]

Nope...don't do the dew.

I'm not saying that Satan makes accusations all the time. I agree...see Job for an example. The issue is that the story that Vernon referenced makes it out that there are three votes....all having equal power. We all know that our vote and Satan's vote are worthless compared to God's vote. God is omnipotent...we/satan are not. Again...see Job. Satan had to ask God if he could "torture" Job.

Job had been justified by God. This is pre-grace. Just like now, Satan does not have the power to harm his children without his approval. We are talking before grace is accepted though, so your example is pointless.

 

[farmasis]

if we are dead in sin. and dead means dead. then how can we do
anything but be dead. Can a dead man choose?????

Yes.

 

[farmasis]

The problem is that you can't explain the doctrine of election or the false doctrine of free will in a simple little story.

Yes you can, and you can also show it from verses in the Bible. Something that people who believe in unconditional election cannot do without warping the meaning of the Bible, taking verses out of context and throwing out 35+ verses that God says that it is his will for man to choose him.

Opposite of that, is false doctrine and that is what you believe.

 

[Double Barrel BB]

He did choose you, as he did ALL of the world. Now, it is HIS will that we choose him. No offense, but what you would rather have happen is not important.

Nope, I don't believe I have a choice... That is why I leave my Salvation in the hands of God. I don't want to have anything to do with it..

I don't understand who would say no after their sinful nature has been revealed to them by God, and they know that they are a dirty, nasty, sinful, creature, in need of Salvation from eternal torment...

DB BB

 

[rjcruiser]

I have heard it said many times that in order to believe Hyper Calvinism, one must be taught the doctrines. I happen to be one of those who never had such a mentor, and thus had to depend upon God's word for my instruction.

I think you mentioned in a post above that your mentor was a simple story tellin "elderly black preacher"

Really, rather than hash this out again....your an arminian. You believe in man's choice. I don't. I disagree with arminius just as the synod of Dordt did. I think if you study your Bible like these Godly men did back in the 1600s, you'll realize it as well. Also, as an FYI, Calvin was not a part of the Synod of Dordt. He died in 1564....55 years before the Synod of Dordt. I just don't want you to write off the Synod of Dordt because you think that Calvin was a part of.

 

[Double Barrel BB]

Seems like a rather "far out" question since most people believe that most people of the world will remain lost to the end.

I am not a universalist and have never met a universalist.

I am willing to accept the words of Christ who made this statement in Rev. 3:20: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and sup with him, and he with me".

I happen to believe that the shed blood of Christ is sufficent to save the entire world, if they only would hear his voice, and open the door of their heart.

I have heard it said many times that in order to believe Hyper Calvinism, one must be taught the doctrines. I happen to be one of those who never had such a mentor, and thus had to depend upon God's word for my instruction.

There is a difference in Hyper Calvinism and Calvinism... hence the word Hyper in front of it...

DB BB