The "word of God"

[bullethead]

I don't see why you still contend there was no vote. Not that the exact method of conflict resolution matters, voting, dictate, rock-paper-scissors, or whatever, but there were plenty of councils to decide which matters of doctrine including which books were legit and which were not. They voted at some.

Yes, it's a lazy Wikipedia reference, so feel free to debunk but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_of_Trent#cite_note-0

Though many canons or canon laws were formulated as a result of the 16th century Ecumenical Council of the Roman Catholic Church known as the Council of Trent, the phrase Canon of Trent usually refers to the list of biblical books that were from then on to be considered canonical. This was a decree, the De Canonicis Scripturis, from the Council's fourth session, of 4 April 1546, which passed by vote (24 yea, 15 nay, 16 abstain)[1]. With its decision, the Council of Trent confirmed the identical list already locally approved in 1442 by the Council of Florence (Session 11, 4 February 1442)[2]

Things that make you go Hmmmmmm.

 

[bullethead]

I've been saying that all along -- just waiting for you to admit nobody voted on the canon.

Grab a snickers, your gonna be a while.

 

[centerpin fan]

Grab a snickers, your gonna be a while.

Do you guys read anything that you post? I'm getting the distinct impression that you don't.

What was the date of the fourth session of the Council of Trent? 1546. Now I'm neither a historian nor a mathematician, but I'm pretty confident that 1546 is about 1,300 years after the second and third century fathers listed the books that were commonly accepted as canonical.

Trent was something entirely different. It was the Catholic counterpunch to the assertions of the Protestant Reformation. (Hence, the "Counter Reformation.")

 

[JFS]

Do you guys read anything that you post? I'm getting the distinct impression that you don't.

You said nobody voted, that seems to be incorrect. And you never answered my question about Laodicea. Not endorsing the source, but see for example:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/council-of-laodicea.htm

 

[bullethead]

Do you guys read anything that you post? I'm getting the distinct impression that you don't.

What was the date of the fourth session of the Council of Trent? 1546. Now I'm neither a historian nor a mathematician, but I'm pretty confident that 1546 is about 1,300 years after the second and third century fathers listed the books that were commonly accepted as canonical.

Trent was something entirely different. It was the Catholic counterpunch to the assertions of the Protestant Reformation. (Hence, the "Counter Reformation.")

Until then they were accepted as canon but not until those late councils(and votes) were the 27 official. It was a work in progress . In the first 3 centuries no NT canon was universally recognized.

 

[atlashunter]

Whether it was voted on or not is beside the point. It's a product of man both in writing and compilation, just like any other book. So since all we have are man made texts how does one identify writings as being the work of a god? Especially when there isn't even any evidence that any god exists?

 

[atlashunter]

It seems to me the mere fact that people are reduced to attempting to sift through man made works and call them the work of a god is in itself an indication that there is no such thing. An all knowing god would know that even if he puts out a text through men it will be indistinguishable from the counterfeits. An all powerful god could do better. A caring god would do better.

 

[dawg2]

Whether it was voted on or not is beside the point. It's a product of man both in writing and compilation, just like any other book. So since all we have are man made texts how does one identify writings as being the work of a god? Especially when there isn't even any evidence that any god exists?

If you base the existence of a deity on the ratification of inspired paper, then you are truly confused. Anyone can poke pin holes in any topic. It is no feat of great skill.

I have a challenge for you.

Why don't you pray. Pray hard for 7 days straight for guidance and for God to give you something to believe in. It won't hurt anything and you have nothing to lose.

 

[dawg2]

It seems to me the mere fact that people are reduced to attempting to sift through man made works and call them the work of a god is in itself an indication that there is no such thing. An all knowing god would know that even if he puts out a text through men it will be indistinguishable from the counterfeits. An all powerful god could do better. A caring god would do better.

Our forefathers thought the same about the Constitution. It was so simple...

 

[atlashunter]

If you base the existence of a deity on the ratification of inspired paper, then you are truly confused. Anyone can poke pin holes in any topic. It is no feat of great skill.

I have a challenge for you.

Why don't you pray. Pray hard for 7 days straight for guidance and for God to give you something to believe in. It won't hurt anything and you have nothing to lose.

What exactly should happen in or after those 7 days? Want to be sure I know what to expect. Shall I also sacrifice a goat?

Our forefathers thought the same about the Constitution. It was so simple...

Thought what?

 

[atlashunter]

It's funny that you would respond to my post about distinguishing a divinely inspired work out of a pile of religious texts by suggesting I pray. Don't you realize muslims pray 5 times a day? How many of them are there? Why didn't prayer do it for them?

 

[JFS]

Pray hard for 7 days straight for guidance and for God to give you something to believe in.

I call your prayer and raise you The Power of Attraction.

http://www.applying-the-law-of-attraction.com/

Let us know how your 7 day trial goes.

 

[stringmusic]

It seems to me the mere fact that people are reduced to attempting to sift through man made works and call them the work of a god is in itself an indication that there is no such thing. An all knowing god would know that even if he puts out a text through men it will be indistinguishable from the counterfeits. An all powerful god could do better. A caring god would do better.

All hail to the almighty atlashunter who declares what is and what isn't "better"

 

[stringmusic]

It's funny that you would respond to my post about distinguishing a divinely inspired work out of a pile of religious texts by suggesting I pray. Don't you realize muslims pray 5 times a day? How many of them are there? Why didn't prayer do it for them?

You could pray to a cow in a field if you wanted to, it will not get you anywhere.

 

[centerpin fan]

Until then they were accepted as canon but not until those late councils(and votes) were the 27 official. It was a work in progress . In the first 3 centuries no NT canon was universally recognized.

Second and early third century writers Clement of Alexandria, Origin, Tertullian, and Irenaeus quoted from almost the entire NT. The only books they left out were three or four I mentioned above.

The councils just formally recognized what was commonly understood.

 

[centerpin fan]

That's interesting. They voted at the Council of Nicaea didn't they? How do we know they didn't vote at the Council of Laodicea? Seems odd they wouldn't.

See post #96.

Also, if they voted on the canon, where's the record of it? Why didn't anybody mention this epic vote? We know exactly what happened at Nicea, which was absolutely the most important church council. We know who attended, how many attended, where they came from, where it was held, who won, and who lost.

A vote on the canon would be equally well-documented.

 

[HawgJawl]

If a council of men is called together for the purpose of officially establishing "something", and "something" is established by those men, then it was either established by majority vote of man or it was dictated by man. Unless a talking, burning, bush appeared and directed the establishment of the "thing", it was done by man.

 

[atlashunter]

You could pray to a cow in a field if you wanted to, it will not get you anywhere.

You're absolutely right. It will get you exactly the same results as praying to Jesus. You're catching on string.

 

[TheBishop]

See post #96.

Also, if they voted on the canon, where's the record of it? Why didn't anybody mention this epic vote? We know exactly what happened at Nicea, which was absolutely the most important church council. We know who attended, how many attended, where they came from, where it was held, who won, and who lost.

A vote on the canon would be equally well-documented.

Answer this:

Why would they record it?

If a vote took place, would it be in the best interest of the church to advertise it? It kinda would put a damper on the whole divinely inspired word thing. I'm mean it just doesn't sound all that good if they had to admit the heavily edited the word of god. I would think it loses its power of persuasion.

Just a thought.

 

[centerpin fan]

Why would they record it?

Why wouldn't they? They recorded everything else. The ante-Nicene fathers collection fills ten volumes with over 6,000 pages. They clearly had no problem recording Nicea, which was arguably the most important church council in history.