What Is True?

[welderguy]

I dont even think anything blesses Christians.

Lots of factors contribute to my accomplishments.
Upbringing, genetics, society, the will for me to set examples for my Sons being a few.

It sure has occured to me. That is why I continue to talk to you.

Do you consider yourself to be a humble person?(not that it matters)

 

[welderguy]

And there, in a nutshell, is how your religion teaches you to view other people.
Its sad.

It would truly be sad if there wasn't One Who is a master at making things spotless.

 

[bullethead]

Do you consider yourself to be a humble person?(not that it matters)

I am extremely humble until I am pushed.

I have no problem telling it like it is, but only after I hear enough to know the other person is not honest.

I figure if they are not bashful to say it, I am not bashful to call them out on it.

 

[welderguy]

I am extremely humble until I am pushed.

I have no problem telling it like it is, but only after I hear enough to know the other person is not honest.

I figure if they are not bashful to say it, I am not bashful to call them out on it.

Have I been dishonestly pushy?
If so,how?

 

[WaltL1]

It would truly be sad if there wasn't One Who is a master at making things spotless.

I'm sure, in your mind, that response actually means something.

 

[bullethead]

Have I been dishonestly pushy?
If so,how?

Welder you avoid questions constantly even when asked multiple times so there was no mistake that you just missed them.

You do not use evidence that is acceptable anywhere reality is used.

You argue from ignorance.

Basically EVERYTHING that I constantly bring to your attention are the causes.

I have no problem with people making claims when they can back them up.
I WANT you to back them up. The reason I am in here is to find ONE person that their god elects with the gift to be able to prove their god to me.
So far in here, and in 27 years of searching, zip.

I would be the first to be honest enough to accept actual factual evidence. Dont fool yourself into thinking that you have proved your points and I do not accept them because I would have to admit I am wrong. It is quite the contrary.

I am under the impression that something so true as the creator of truth, something that exemplifies truth and knowledge would not and could not be so elusive.

I am looking at all of it objectively. I am humble enough to admit when I am wrong and I am honest enough to not settle for anything but the most accurate examples of evidence that leaves me with zero doubt.

You have been unable to sway me towards your beliefs, in fact, you have done more to provide examples to me of why I cannot find evidence of any specific god let alone the god you speak of.

 

[bullethead]

I am taking richies advice and heading to the range.

 

[bullethead]

300 rnds later. Soul cleansed .

 

[red neck richie]

300 rnds later. Soul cleansed .

Just got back myself. Maybe not a soul cleanser but definitely a stress reliever. My daughter says she liked shooting my AR-15 the best. And she's a great shot we had a great day.

 

[bullethead]

Just got back myself. Maybe not a soul cleanser but definitely a stress reliever. My daughter says she liked shooting my AR-15 the best. And she's a great shot we had a great day.

That is awesome.

 

[welderguy]

Welder you avoid questions constantly even when asked multiple times so there was no mistake that you just missed them.

You do not use evidence that is acceptable anywhere reality is used.

You argue from ignorance.

Basically EVERYTHING that I constantly bring to your attention are the causes.

I have no problem with people making claims when they can back them up.
I WANT you to back them up. The reason I am in here is to find ONE person that their god elects with the gift to be able to prove their god to me.
So far in here, and in 27 years of searching, zip.

I would be the first to be honest enough to accept actual factual evidence. Dont fool yourself into thinking that you have proved your points and I do not accept them because I would have to admit I am wrong. It is quite the contrary.

I am under the impression that something so true as the creator of truth, something that exemplifies truth and knowledge would not and could not be so elusive.

I am looking at all of it objectively. I am humble enough to admit when I am wrong and I am honest enough to not settle for anything but the most accurate examples of evidence that leaves me with zero doubt.

You have been unable to sway me towards your beliefs, in fact, you have done more to provide examples to me of why I cannot find evidence of any specific god let alone the god you speak of.

To the best of my knowledge, the only time I don't address a question is when I see no reason behind beating the dead horse with you. You have proven to blatantly reject spiritual matters.There are many responses I would make that would only fall on deaf ears.You claim to be open to all evidence of proof, but if that evidence is spiritual you are anything but open to it.

Having said all of that, bring any of those questions back to my attention and we will try again.

 

[bullethead]

To the best of my knowledge, the only time I don't address a question is when I see no reason behind beating the dead horse with you. You have proven to blatantly reject spiritual matters.There are many responses I would make that would only fall on deaf ears.You claim to be open to all evidence of proof, but if that evidence is spiritual you are anything but open to it.

Having said all of that, bring any of those questions back to my attention and we will try again.

Welder, we cant talk spiritual until you prove spirits.
You try to prove the make believe with the imaginable.

You have to provide tangible evidence of one before we can talk about the other.

To me it is no different than you rejecting proof of Allah because someone reads a passage in the koran and then backs it up with their inner feelings.

Half the threads would have to be reposted due to the amount of questions you purposely ignore. You can sift through this thread alone to start.

 

[welderguy]

Welder, we cant talk spiritual until you prove spirits.
You try to prove the make believe with the imaginable.

You have to provide tangible evidence of one before we can talk about the other.

To me it is no different than you rejecting proof of Allah because someone reads a passage in the koran and then backs it up with their inner feelings.

Half the threads would have to be reposted due to the amount of questions you purposely ignore. You can sift through this thread alone to start.

I don't see you and I ever being able to discuss anything that doesn't involve the 5 senses. You say you are open to a God, but God is spiritual. And you reject the spiritual, so that's a real roadblock to the conversation.

 

[red neck richie]

I expect prayers to anything including a frying pan to result in a "yes, no, not right now" answer.

It's really a lack of an answer as talking to a frying pan has no ability to affect the future as far as anyone can tell. Still, something will happen to me in regards to my "prayer". There will be a desired outcome ("yes" answer), a negative outcome ("no" answer), or nothing will happen either way (a "not right now" answer).

Interestingly, a "no" answer (your loved one who you prayed for dies) will often be rationalized as "God's will was done. He had a good reason that we may never understand for her suffering". Also, an event tangentially related to the initial prayer might be seen as God's "sideways" answer to the prayer.

From the point of view of the believer, God's will is ALWAYS done no matter what happens and in that way the believer can take comfort in the fact that God has the situation under control no matter how heinous the situation is. Isn't that what it's all about, aligning your world view in such a way as to give you meaning, assurance, and comfort; truth not withstanding?

So do I understand prayer or not?

No Ambush you do not understand prayer. It is a personal relationship with God that you lack. If you think you can get the same thing by praying to a pan tells me you don't know him.

 

[bullethead]

I don't see you and I ever being able to discuss anything that doesn't involve the 5 senses. You say you are open to a God, but God is spiritual. And you reject the spiritual, so that's a real roadblock to the conversation.

Are you saying that your god is incapable of presenting itself to me on a way that I would understand or could relate to?
A voice?
An Apparition?
A visit in the flesh?
Burning bush?
Talking donkey?
Can I be the 501st witness?

 

[welderguy]

Are you saying that your god is incapable of presenting itself to me on a way that I would understand or could relate to?
A voice?
An Apparition?
A visit in the flesh?
Burning bush?
Talking donkey?
Can I be the 501st witness?

He certainly can. It's through His Spirit.(uh-oh roadblock)
He did that to me. You can believe me on that or not, but it is as true as I'm breathing.

 

[bullethead]

He certainly can. It's through His Spirit.(uh-oh roadblock)
He did that to me. You can believe me on that or not, but it is as true as I'm breathing.

So I am standing on the other side of a roadblock and am wondering if your god can remove that roadblock for me?
Can it get around or over that roadblock to reach me?
What rule prevents your god from contacting me directly and circumventing the spirit thing?

Now I can believe you but to do so I would also have to believe every other person in every other religion that uses the proof of "it is as true as I am breathing".
I almost can barely think of 4 or 5 thousand other things that would be more convincing, but I have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[welderguy]

So I am standing on the other side of a roadblock and am wondering if your god can remove that roadblock for me?
Can it get around or over that roadblock to reach me?
What rule prevents your god from contacting me directly and circumventing the spirit thing?

Now I can believe you but to do so I would also have to believe every other person in every other religion that uses the proof of "it is as true as I am breathing".
I almost can barely think of 4 or 5 thousand other things that would be more convincing, but I have to draw the line somewhere.

No silly, the roadblock I was referring to was in our conversation,I mentioned it earlier.
There is no roadblock for the Spirit. He goes wherever He will to ALL that the Father has given Him.
Until the Spirit breathes on you, you cannot believe. You may never believe. You say you were once a believer, but it's apparent that it was only intellectually and not spiritually. Because when something else came along that in your mind made more sense(less foolish), you rejected what you formerly "believed".

 

[bullethead]

No silly, the roadblock I was referring to was in our conversation,I mentioned it earlier.
There is no roadblock for the Spirit. He goes wherever He will to ALL that the Father has given Him.
Until the Spirit breathes on you, you cannot believe. You may never believe. You say you were once a believer, but it's apparent that it was only intellectually and not spiritually. Because when something else came along that in your mind made more sense(less foolish), you rejected what you formerly "believed".

So the Spirit is independent of god?
I always was under the impression that The Trinity was all the same.

Welder, 27 years ago I sounded just like you and your irrational excuses. Please do not insult your own inelligence by trying to Dr.St. Phil me about how I formerly was.

Add that to the list of your dishonestly pushy ways.

 

[bullethead]

So welder, getting back to your "its as true as I am breathing" evidence...
Does that evidence hold true for all believers in all religions that say the same thing?