How long to wait for Jesus would be too long?

[hobbs27]

If I’m thinking what y’all are thinking.......I think I know too.

What I would really like to know is IF what he’s saying is true.......hows the “there is no end” and the “final judgment “ “the new heaven coming down” play out.

What’s today’s people do? What happens for us? No judgement? Why would Paul need to go to Spain if the gospel had been preached in all nations? Why does 2 Thess. 2 vs 3&4 sound like what a lot of others believe Daniels prophecy was? And who was the “man of sin” that set himself up to be worshipped as God in the temple? If that wasn’t what Daniels prophecy was, why did Paul mention anything about it? Regardless, who was it?

I don’t want to sound like I’m shooting down his belief just because I don’t understand him.

What's today's people do?
Today's people answer to the beckoning call of the Spirit and take of the water of life freely given... To be born from above to gain eternal life, for those that do not will perish. John 3:16

No judgment? If you mean no destruction coming from Jesus then yes, there's no future judgment. If you mean on an individual basis, then No, we are judged in this lifetime at the time we enter in the family of God and become citizens of His kingdom.

Why would Paul go to Spain if the gospel had been preached in all nations?
Matt. 24:14 claims the Gospel had to be preached in all the world. Both Roman's 10:18 and Colossians 1:23 proclaimed it had... So we must evaluate and study what was meant by going out to all the world. I believe it was to their known world, maybe just the Roman Empire at the time, or maybe just the land of Israel. Whatever Matt. 24:14 qualifies as having to happen before the end... Roman's and colossians both certify that qualification as being met.

Those last few questions are similar so I'll group them in who was the man of sin.. aka anti Christ.
We know before the end the anti Christ comes, well John made a strong claim about this : 1John 2:18
New Living Translation
Dear children, the last hour is here. You have heard that the Antichrist is coming, and already many such antichrists have appeared. From this we know that the last hour has come.

Above John references the sign and the sign being fulfilled in their present time.

So who was the anti Christ or man of lawlessness?
Doing a thorough study, you will find the term is actually plural meaning there was no one individual, but many, and they were Christians that had been influenced by Judaizers and had turned away from Christ and went back to Judaism.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

lets see...

all the world doesn't mean all the world

every creature doesn't mean all mankind

The man of predition means a lot of men

A new heaven and earth means ?????

No more seas means ????

No more death,crying,or pain means we still have death, crying and pain

no more night means ????


I don't know about you, Spotlight, but I just see a lot of twisting and turning trying to explain how all this means something other than what it says. If Jesus had returned, then we would see the prophecies fulfilled.

The Bible says there will be no more sin, yet I see sin everyday, and commit a few myself from time to time. The Bible says that the Mount of Olives will be split into and a river will flood the valley and bring life to the Dead Sea. When I was there 3 years ago, the Dead Sea was still dead. Scripture says Satan will be bound and cast into a bottomless pit..... he still seems to be around and doing his thing now a days to me.

While I admire that Hobbs has spent a lot of time studying and reading, I just can't agree with him on most of his interpretation of Scripture.

 

[oldfella1962]

Just curious, lets say we are where you say..........when did the events in Revelation 21 happen............passing away of the earth and no more sea?

I read somewhere that "no more sea" was not (surprise surprise) meant to be taken literally. They meant a sea of sin or sadness or hopelessness or something. To me the bible is kind of like the whack-a-mole game trying to keep up with when a statement is symbolic/poetic license or other literary device, and when a statement is the dirt simple truth. This is why there is such debate over bible interpretation - the bible says what you want it to say for the most part. Too much "the author said this or that but what he really meant was....." going on, which is sad considering the bible is the most important book ever written, affecting your eternal reward/punishment.

 

[oldfella1962]

"Doing a thorough study, you will find the term is actually plural meaning there was no one individual, but many, and they were Christians that had been influenced by Judaizers and had turned away from Christ and went back to Judaism." interesting.....the Jews had their city/temple destroyed and then almost two thousand years later god allowed his chosen people (used to be his chosen people back in the old testament, but now Christians are his chosen people) to almost get exterminated by Hitler. They just can't catch a break!

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I read somewhere that "no more sea" was not (surprise surprise) meant to be taken literally. They meant a sea of sin or sadness or hopelessness or something. To me the bible is kind of like the whack-a-mole game trying to keep up with when a statement is symbolic/poetic license or other literary device, and when a statement is the dirt simple truth. This is why there is such debate over bible interpretation - the bible says what you want it to say for the most part. Too much "the author said this or that but what he really meant was....." going on, which is sad considering the bible is the most important book ever written, affecting your eternal reward/punishment.

well, the sad truth is that we all have our preconceived ideas of what we want God to look like, how we want God to act, and how we think God should reward/punish people. When the scriptures say something that that we find difficult to comprehend or that clashes with our ideas of who/what God is, then we start twisting words and explaining away things that scripture plainly states.

Take a literal 6 day creation for example. Anyone who has studied the hebrew language much will tell you that the author of Genesis meant for his writings to be understood as the world and all the animals/plants in it and on it were created in 6 literal 24 hour days. Every time scripture uses the word day (yom) with evening and morning, it is interpreted as a 24 hour sunset to sunset day. Except Genesis 1-2. There, because of the teaching of evolution, they say the Bible can't be right, so yom must mean ages or a time period of some other measure. They even will twist Peter's message that God is not contained by our understanding for space and time, to mean that it took God 6000 years to create everything.

So, all I can tell you is to read and study the Bible on your own, and come to a conclusion where you are convinced that you understand what you belief, and stand firm in that belief. Of course there are things there that even the most learned people argue over and can't understand, but the basics are fairly easy.

God loves us, and wants the best for us. We can live in His presence if we accept His gift of salvation. God wants us to treat our fellow man as we would want to be treated.

If we could just do that, the earth would be so much better off. The truth about scripture is this... I understand a lot more of it than I practice. Not because I willfully want to disobey teachings, but because I am human, imperfect and sinful. I am not where I need to be, but I am also not where I was.

 

[bullethead]

well, the sad truth is that we all have our preconceived ideas of what we want God to look like, how we want God to act, and how we think God should reward/punish people. When the scriptures say something that that we find difficult to comprehend or that clashes with our ideas of who/what God is, then we start twisting words and explaining away things that scripture plainly states.

Take a literal 6 day creation for example. Anyone who has studied the hebrew language much will tell you that the author of Genesis meant for his writings to be understood as the world and all the animals/plants in it and on it were created in 6 literal 24 hour days. Every time scripture uses the word day (yom) with evening and morning, it is interpreted as a 24 hour sunset to sunset day. Except Genesis 1-2. There, because of the teaching of evolution, they say the Bible can't be right, so yom must mean ages or a time period of some other measure. They even will twist Peter's message that God is not contained by our understanding for space and time, to mean that it took God 6000 years to create everything.

So, all I can tell you is to read and study the Bible on your own, and come to a conclusion where you are convinced that you understand what you belief, and stand firm in that belief. Of course there are things there that even the most learned people argue over and can't understand, but the basics are fairly easy.

God loves us, and wants the best for us. We can live in His presence if we accept His gift of salvation. God wants us to treat our fellow man as we would want to be treated.

If we could just do that, the earth would be so much better off. The truth about scripture is this... I understand a lot more of it than I practice. Not because I willfully want to disobey teachings, but because I am human, imperfect and sinful. I am not where I need to be, but I am also not where I was.

Speaking of translations, why does Yeshua= Joshua except for one guy when Yeshua= Jesus?

And I know we are to the point where I could wish you a happy birthday and it would sound snarky or cocky to you in text, but I am sincere with this question..
How do you know what God wants?

 

[hobbs27]

"Doing a thorough study, you will find the term is actually plural meaning there was no one individual, but many, and they were Christians that had been influenced by Judaizers and had turned away from Christ and went back to Judaism." interesting.....the Jews had their city/temple destroyed and then almost two thousand years later god allowed his chosen people (used to be his chosen people back in the old testament, but now Christians are his chosen people) to almost get exterminated by Hitler. They just can't catch a break!

God's chosen people escaped the temple destruction. Those that remained were the chaff.. the wicked. 1.1 million perished there, others were taken in bondage while the weakest that survived were left with nothing...The Jews are no longer God's chosen people " there is no longer Jew nor Greek " But those that are born from above in the new covenant are children of God.
The true Jew's ( God's chosen) were harvested, gathered together, and placed in the spiritual new covenant kingdom, that the story continues on. Those of a little Hebrew bloodline today that many dispensationalist Christians call God's chosen, are just as much lost and without hope as any other false religion.

 

[Spotlite]

What's today's people do?
Today's people answer to the beckoning call of the Spirit and take of the water of life freely given... To be born from above to gain eternal life, for those that do not will perish. John 3:16
we are judged in this lifetime at the time we enter in the family of God and become citizens of His kingdom.

The rest was important..................but this was the most important for me in trying to understand your belief. My initial thoughts were that if one does believe that the "return of Jesus" has already been fulfilled, what is driving him to keep believing in eternal life.

 

[Spotlite]

I read somewhere that "no more sea" was not (surprise surprise) meant to be taken literally. They meant a sea of sin or sadness or hopelessness or something. To me the bible is kind of like the whack-a-mole game trying to keep up with when a statement is symbolic/poetic license or other literary device, and when a statement is the dirt simple truth. This is why there is such debate over bible interpretation - the bible says what you want it to say for the most part. Too much "the author said this or that but what he really meant was....." going on, which is sad considering the bible is the most important book ever written, affecting your eternal reward/punishment.

I would think "sea of sin" would be a large amount / body of sin. And in another place it says "sea of glass" and it is not that hard to figure out that it means a large area of glass. And I would think that "sea" would be a large body of water.

I have read that "the sea" illustrates a collection of memory or knowledge. And "sea" is just as I said, a body of water. That is why I was asking him to clarify the text referencing "no more sea", instead of saying "the sea was no more"

But I do think that people tend to make the Bible say what they want it to. I guess it is normal, if not, who would need a lawyer for court day.

 

[Spotlite]

lets see...

all the world doesn't mean all the world

every creature doesn't mean all mankind

The man of predition means a lot of men

A new heaven and earth means ?????

No more seas means ????

No more death,crying,or pain means we still have death, crying and pain

no more night means ????


I don't know about you, Spotlight, but I just see a lot of twisting and turning trying to explain how all this means something other than what it says. If Jesus had returned, then we would see the prophecies fulfilled.

The Bible says there will be no more sin, yet I see sin everyday, and commit a few myself from time to time. The Bible says that the Mount of Olives will be split into and a river will flood the valley and bring life to the Dead Sea. When I was there 3 years ago, the Dead Sea was still dead. Scripture says Satan will be bound and cast into a bottomless pit..... he still seems to be around and doing his thing now a days to me.

While I admire that Hobbs has spent a lot of time studying and reading, I just can't agree with him on most of his interpretation of Scripture.

I`m lost myself, but I really wanted to know what kept driving him if the return had already happened.

 

[Spotlite]

Speaking of translations, why does Yeshua= Joshua except for one guy when Yeshua= Jesus?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_(name)

 

[bullethead]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_(name)

So even though Jesus is really Joshua, they use the Greek translation for him and the Hebrew for all others just so it makes it seem Jesus stands out more.

 

[Spotlite]

So even though Jesus is really Joshua, they use the Greek translation for him and the Hebrew for all others just so it makes it seem Jesus stands out more.

"Yeshua was a common name for Yehoshua - Joshua, in later books of the Hebrew Bible among Jews. The name corresponds to the Greek spelling lesous from, which through, the Latin lesus, comes from the English spelling Jesus"

Correspond = to be in conformity or agreement.

A chicken and a pigeon are two different birds but they correspond to the word = poultry.

 

[bullethead]

"Yeshua was a common name for Yehoshua - Joshua, in later books of the Hebrew Bible among Jews. The name corresponds to the Greek spelling lesous from, which through, the Latin lesus, comes from the English spelling Jesus"

Correspond = to be in conformity or agreement.

A chicken and a pigeon are two different birds but they correspond to the word = poultry.

Yeah. Jesus is a Josh and all the other Josh's in the Bible are Jesus's. They correspond.

 

[hobbs27]

spotlite I enjoyed the conversation, Pappy as always, I also enjoyed your poking and prodding. This will end my comments on here for a while, but I want to suggest a great non preterist book for you both. If you read it, I'll bet it will be one of your favorite Christian books in your library.
God Bless:

https://play.google.com/store/books...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CKO5urmo1tsCFV7G4wcd75oLrQ

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Speaking of translations, why does Yeshua= Joshua except for one guy when Yeshua= Jesus?

And I know we are to the point where I could wish you a happy birthday and it would sound snarky or cocky to you in text, but I am sincere with this question..
How do you know what God wants?

from what I understand the name translation has to do with Joshua being written pre Roman rule, and Jesus being post Roman rule translation. Either way, Yeshua is hebrew for Salvation.

To me, it seems a little disrespectful to name a child Jesus, but the hispanic people do it all the time. I wouldn't name my son Jesus though.

Oh, and my birthday is in a couple week, so I will just accept that as an early birthday wish. lol

The way I know what God wants is thru reading and studying the Bible, and prayer. Just like everyone else, I do the things I do because I believe what I am doing is the right thing to do. Sometimes I will start to do something and just don't feel comfortable with it. I call it a check. It is like God saying ' not here, not now' You can read about things like this in Acts 14 - 16 when Paul says the Holy Spirit would not allow him to preach in certain cities. Not that preaching was bad, and not that teaching in that town was bad. It just wasn't time for them to be preached to. God had other plans. On occasion, I will have something planned to do, and I get an uneasy feeling about it, so I change my plans.

Now to you and others, it might be explained as just changing my mind or something. All I can tell you is that out of the blue, I will have this uneasyness, and sense that something just isn't quite right. I have learned to trust those feelings, and change what I am doing.

 

[Spotlite]

Speaking of translations, why does Yeshua= Joshua except for one guy when Yeshua= Jesus?

Yeah. Jesus is a Josh and all the other Josh's in the Bible are Jesus's. They correspond.

Well..........spiritually speaking,.............they do correspond

Are you that hung up on a definition of a name?

We could have just went straight to the Bible where his name shall be called Jesus..we call him Almighty, Beloved Son, Alpha and Omega, Bread of Life, etc. But you wouldn't have believed me

 

[Spotlite]

spotlite I enjoyed the conversation, Pappy as always, I also enjoyed your poking and prodding. This will end my comments on here for a while, but I want to suggest a great non preterist book for you both. If you read it, I'll bet it will be one of your favorite Christian books in your library.
God Bless:

https://play.google.com/store/books...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CKO5urmo1tsCFV7G4wcd75oLrQ

Don't go too far away. Me and pappy will think we done got left out again

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Don't go too far away. Me and pappy will think we done got left out again

I would think a martian had gotten him.

 

[Spotlite]

I would think a martian had gotten him.