Born that way?

[hobbs27]

I had brought this up earlier.

Sorry I missed that, according to my wife I've been in the woods too much lately.

 

[hobbs27]

Universalism is the belief that all people will be saved.
I do not believe that.I believe in election and limited atonement.

Regarding 1 Cor.15:22, it certainly involves every human being because it's refering to physical death of the body and physical resurrection of the same body,which will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

"We shall not all sleep,but we shall all be changed..."

In Christ all shall be made alive....In Christ all shall be made alive.
The condemned are not In Christ.

 

[Artfuldodger]

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Again Paul is using the word "all." All will die and all will be made alive. If all means in Adam all will die, why doesn't all mean in Christ all will be made alive?

Some people believe "all will be made alive" means all will be resurrected. I don't think so because Paul said it like this in.....

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

If "all" will die, will "all" be made alive?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Sorry I missed that, according to my wife I've been in the woods too much lately.

No problem, tell your wife, I agree.

 

[Artfuldodger]

In Christ all shall be made alive....In Christ all shall be made alive.
The condemned are not In Christ.

If so then we are not of the elect becasue in Adam all will die. One can't be born condemned and elected.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Romans 3:22-23
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

The point being made here is that ALL have sinned,regardless of being under the law or not.There is no difference.
But,righteousness is upon all that believe(imputed righteousness).It's by faith....but..

"All men have not faith"(2 Thess.3:2)

Again "all" have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. How does this line up with the Elect which we know haven't come short of the glory of God?
Can someone be born condemned and of the elect?

 

[gemcgrew]

Gem, Welder... It makes no difference if I go back one verse.
If all men die in Adam...All men are made alive in Christ. It's universalism, plain and simple...unless you want to make an unbibilical claim that the Condemned are made alive ( IN CHRIST ).

Paul already explained who the "All in Christ" are in 1 Corinthians 1. It is not the same total. Your forcing of universalism is unfounded.

 

[welderguy]

In Christ all shall be made alive....In Christ all shall be made alive.
The condemned are not In Christ.

As I said before,"all shall be made alive" is referring to physical resurrection of the just and the unjust.(all human beings)....remember Jesus told Martha "I am the resurrection".

In Jesus(resurrection),all shall be made alive.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Paul already explained who the "All men made alive in Christ" are in 1 Corinthians 1. It is not the same total. Your forcing of universalism is unfounded.

Did he explain it to the Christians in Rome?

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

 

[gemcgrew]

Did he explain it to the Christians in Rome?

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Of course.

 

[Artfuldodger]

As I said before,"all shall be made alive" is referring to physical resurrection of the just and the unjust.(all human beings)....remember Jesus told Martha "I am the resurrection".

In Jesus(resurrection),all shall be made alive.

If it meant the resurrection why was it related to Adam's one tresspass? Why did one righteous act result in "justification" and life for all people? The resurrection didn't bring justification and life.

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Of course.

What verse?

 

[hobbs27]

If so then we are not of the elect becasue in Adam all will die. One can't be born condemned and elected.

Of course we are not of the elect. No one alive today is.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Paul already explained who the "All in Christ" are in 1 Corinthians 1. It is not the same total. Your forcing of universalism is unfounded.

If the "all" made alive was "all in Christ," then who was the "all" condemned by Adam's sin? The non elect?

 

[gemcgrew]

If it meant the resurrection why was it related to Adam's one tresspass?

Death.

Why did one righteous act result in "justification" and life for all people?

All of Christ's people?
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."

 

[gemcgrew]

Of course we are not of the elect. No one alive today is.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Romans 5:19-20
19For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. 20The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Now it's not "all" but "many." In verse 20 the same "many" made sinners by the "one" will be made righteous by the "one."

It's the same group.

 

[hobbs27]

As I said before,"all shall be made alive" is referring to physical resurrection of the just and the unjust.(all human beings)....remember Jesus told Martha "I am the resurrection".

In Jesus(resurrection),all shall be made alive.

In Christ....all shall be made alive...you keep dropping the In Christ.

In Adam is death
In Christ is eternal life.
I have eternal life in Christ. The Israelites of the old covenant was dead in Adam.
Some were born from above..( born again) into the new covenant of life!

Death reigned from Adam to Moses... Now life reigns in Christ.

 

[welderguy]

Again "all" have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. How does this line up with the Elect which we know haven't come short of the glory of God?

The elect are included in the "all".It's only by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ that the elect can glorify God.Remember,"and such were some of you".

Can someone be born condemned and of the elect?

Yes.The elect were condemned through Adam,but justified through Christ.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Death.

All of Christ's people?
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."

So the "all made alive" is whom, "all in Christ" or "all at the resurrection?"

Who was the "all" that Adam's sin condemned?