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  #26  
Old 09-21-2016, 12:42 PM
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It's pretty simple. If I am the founder of a religion, I want more followers. Homosexuals dont make more followers so Ill say that this is a sin. The same goes for abortion and birth control, etc etc
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  #27  
Old 09-21-2016, 01:21 PM
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It's pretty simple. If I am the founder of a religion, I want more followers. Homosexuals dont make more followers so Ill say that this is a sin.
Neither do the celibate, yet celibacy is promoted by some religions (Buddhism, Catholicism.)

Homosexuality is opposed by the Abrahamic faiths because it is seen as sin, a perversion of nature.
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  #28  
Old 09-21-2016, 01:28 PM
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It's pretty simple. If I am the founder of a religion, I want more followers. Homosexuals dont make more followers so Ill say that this is a sin. The same goes for abortion and birth control, etc etc
That is an unfounded statement. Between adoption and insemination there are plenty of kids of homosexual families out there. All that I know are regular church goers and are actually very active in volunteering in their church and with stateside as well as international missions.
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  #29  
Old 09-21-2016, 02:11 PM
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I wonder why celibacy isn't a perversion of nature?
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  #30  
Old 09-21-2016, 09:36 PM
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That is an unfounded statement. Between adoption and insemination there are plenty of kids of homosexual families out there. All that I know are regular church goers and are actually very active in volunteering in their church and with stateside as well as international missions.
Well, the religions you are all speaking of werent contrived today. They are all hundreds or thousands of years old.

As we have also seen, religion evolves. It has to. Many christian faiths currently approve of homosexuality. They have also had to adjust their thinking about much of what is written in the bible due to scientific discovery.
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Old 09-21-2016, 09:48 PM
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Well, the religions you are all speaking of werent contrived today. They are all hundreds or thousands of years old.

As we have also seen, religion evolves. It has to. Many christian faiths currently approve of homosexuality. They have also had to adjust their thinking about much of what is written in the bible due to scientific discovery.
Loving the sinner but not the sin is in no way an approval of a sinful lifestyle. The evolution I have seen in the last 50 years is that some of them are finally accepting the greatest commandments they were charged with.
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  #32  
Old 09-21-2016, 10:29 PM
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That is an unfounded statement. Between adoption and insemination there are plenty of kids of homosexual families out there. All that I know are regular church goers and are actually very active in volunteering in their church and with stateside as well as international missions.
What if you started a religion where there was a way out for your followers? Imagine a religion where your followers can't quit sinning so you offer them a way to get out of it.

Start a religion where you pick the followers from all aspects of civilization. From islands and villages across the world. Choosing all type of sinners.
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  #33  
Old 09-22-2016, 09:43 PM
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What about masturbation? It's unnatural according to your "natural laws". I dont know where you get those since homosexuality and masturbation are both fairly common in the "natural world".
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  #34  
Old 09-23-2016, 09:57 AM
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... homosexuality and masturbation are both fairly common in the "natural world".
Is this a confession?
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  #35  
Old 11-03-2016, 08:32 PM
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What about masturbation? It's unnatural according to your "natural laws". I dont know where you get those since homosexuality and masturbation are both fairly common in the "natural world".
The whole :it is o.k. because it occurs in nature argument doesn't fly." Mallard duck drakes and otters are notorious rapists, grizzly bear males kill there cubs as do chimps to drive the female back into estrus, most animals fight, bottle nose dolphins kill proposes, hyenas steal from other animal and each other, and so on and so on. There are plenty of things in the "natural world" that aren't accepted by most humans regardless of their religious background. However, if the is no God and we have all just developed through evolution over time, how did we as human decide that murder, stealing, and rape is bad after we did it as animals for years and years and years. If it is all about survival of the fittest, then how did human after billion of years of "formation" one day decide that we need to help others, not steal, and not rape. It makes no sense. The "rules" had to come from somewhere, and it makes no sense that after billion of years of stealing, raping, and killing animals would one day decide that these things are wrong. That is why using the nature argument to justify something doesn't work.
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  #36  
Old 11-06-2016, 08:39 AM
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I'm sure that within the animal kingdom, disregarding humans, have to learn to live together or evolve to live together as a social group. They do have social skills. I would agree that we can't use animals as our rules to live by concerning one's religion.
God put forth to Israel certain laws to include not wearing certain kinds of cloths at the same time.
God didn't give the Native Americans living at the time he gave all of those rules he gave to the Jews.

Now some say God gave the power to know him by looking at nature. Thus the Native Americans possibly knew God and had to follow his rules.
I don't believe it happened or happens that way as God elects individuals from those groups and they are the one's enlightened.
The rest, even though human, still lived as savages and learned over time to become civilized.
Man wasn't born civilized. He had to learn to live in a social environment in order to survive. We still have individuals who steal, drive drunk, beat their wives, kill, hate, are jealous, are proud, gossip, and on and on.

Leftover bad traits from a previous generation. Either man has the capability to know God without the gospel to overcome sin or he must know Jesus to over come sin.
These traits are still in us. We can't just stop sinning. Therefore we must have Jesus die for us. This covers our sins. The only way back in time for individuals, even Native Americans, was to overcome sin, was to know Jesus.
How do you think they knew? How did they develop the ability to overcome sin? Evolution of social skills or knowing Jesus?

What if one overcomes killing, raping, gossiping, stealing, and cheating and still doesn't know Jesus?

There is a lot more to Christianity than just being good. We might can be good for nothing but it takes knowing Jesus to become a Christian.

Who is without excuse to know God? If one knows God, do they know Jesus? Remember Jesus is God.
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  #37  
Old 11-06-2016, 08:45 AM
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What about masturbation? It's unnatural according to your "natural laws". I dont know where you get those since homosexuality and masturbation are both fairly common in the "natural world".
I think bats might be the leading perverts within the animal world.
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  #38  
Old 11-06-2016, 03:40 PM
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I think bats might be the leading perverts within the animal world.
Mollusks get my vote.


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  #39  
Old 11-24-2016, 10:00 PM
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To a point I made earlier in another thread the word was not written before man. Again I understand that the Bible was the inspired word of God written through human beings. But anything that man touches can be tainted. Therefore literally taking the Bible word for word is probably not a good idea.
I was raised in a Christian home but seldom practice what I learned. However I sure can see the BULL in this
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  #40  
Old 11-29-2016, 09:12 PM
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Across the river, if you disqualify the "if it is found in nature argument", then the flip side argument must also be disqualified.
Ergo the homosexuality is not natural and thus wrong argument is eliminated as well.
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  #41  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:02 PM
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Across the river, if you disqualify the "if it is found in nature argument", then the flip side argument must also be disqualified.
Ergo the homosexuality is not natural and thus wrong argument is eliminated as well.
I'm not following you. Are you talking about sins that are found in nature?
If the "it isn't natural" makes it wrong then "it is natural" makes it right.

I'm not sure Christianity has much to do with nature when it comes to what God based his sin list on. Especially the Old Testament list. Some of the sins there go against what I would have added and other things that God thought were OK, I wouldn't have.
Especially concerning women as related to war, taking cities, etc.
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  #42  
Old 12-01-2016, 06:53 PM
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Yes Artfull I'm saying that the argument "not natural=wrong, and it's reverse argument that "natural = right" are joined. We've seen the homosexuality is not natural argument here hundreds of times as a means to infer that it cannot be right, OK, etc.

I'm pointing out the fact that if someone argues that natural does not equal right, they cannot at the same time hold the belief that not natural equals wrong. It violates the Contraposition Law of logic.
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  #43  
Old 12-01-2016, 09:06 PM
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Yeah I'm reminded of one of those nature shows(natural example) where the Alpha male primate hogs all the females for himself. I guess this natural concept insures that most of the offspring are big and strong like daddy.
Still the younger, skinnier, and weaker other males attempt to copulate without getting caught by Big Daddy.(quite entertaining to watch)

If we as Man were to follow that homosexuality isn't natural in nature, then we must also accept that the Alpha male in our group gets all the women.
It's natural and therefore, right.
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