The Original Rooster
Mayor of Spring Hill
I believe that's how I'm going to start carrying my 9mm Shield Plus in a high and tight Versacarry holster. It should hide up under my T shirt and give me another option to an airweight .38 in my pocket.
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.380 effectivness
- Thread starter Geezer Ray
- Start date
I carry mine in a Aegis Shield hybrid holster IWB at 3-4:00.
40gr lead solids are my go-to for hunting and such with .22LR. With .22WRM, I like the TMJs or 40gr softpoints.
The Original Rooster
Mayor of Spring Hill
I bet that .38 Super is a peppy thing as those tend to be pretty hot loads.
You're a lot better than me speed wise I'm sure. Quick follow up shots with full size isn't bad for me, but I've had compact 9mm's twist and jump around with those three finger grips they put on some of them. I finally wised up and got rid of the smaller 9mm's with short grips and was looking for a G43X but ended up picking up a used Shield plus 9mm at a local shop. The owner knows me and made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Follow up shots are a lot easier now when I've got something to hold on to.
Yep. Any stimulant drugs really. They are faster,irrational,and feel little pain. My goal is DISTANCE from them,if possible. That “21 foot rule”…should be beaten into all of our heads. I’m aiming for upper chest/head when using a small caliber weapon…
Yeah, I hate those little tiny pistols. I have big hands, and I can't shoot them worth a crap.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
This guy, who was found to have no drugs in his system, took 12 rounds, center mass, at point blank. In the pic shown, he was 8 rounds in. Whatever Caliber the Maryland Montgomery Co sheriff's Deputies use didn't impress that particular guy. (Last year I read it was 45acp, but I can't find an article with specifics now) But, for every instance like this there is another video that shows a one shot drop with whatever the shooter happens to be is using.
The Original Rooster
Mayor of Spring Hill
A lot of my problem is that working on a keyboard for 30 years, I don't have near the grip strength that I used to. Add a little sweat to those hard plastic grips and a +p load and those tiny grips will jump all around in my hand. They also tend to slide bite me sometimes just because you have to hold them so high just to get a grip on them. I imagine they get you too with big hands.
I think we finally have that happy medium in size of concealable 9mm's where they are still controllable. Plus, bullet design has come a long way where we can get a good hollow point that will expand at lower velocities so we don't have to shoot +P's just to get reliable expansion.
40gr TMJ is what I use in my NAA 22 mag pocket rocket. At 10 feet,it will penetrate one side of a steel drum,and almost penetrate through the back side. That’s with a puny 1.5 inch barrel. Basically equal to a 22 LR rifle. With a 3 in. barrel,or longer..it would bump velocity enough to do it. Not to mention..a 22 Mag pistol..sounds like a .357 Magnum..
transfixer
Senior Member
There is a huge difference in pain tolerance between your average persons, and adrenaline enhances pain tolerance, the only absolutely positive "one shot stop" has to interrupt the central nervous system, spine, brain stem, frontal area of the brain, even a heart shot doesn't guarantee one shot stops, as most deer hunters can attest to
The Original Rooster
Mayor of Spring Hill
True, I've tried to read up on a lot of gun fights and quite a number of times, people have taken hits that should have put them down but didn't due to just pure adrenaline.
The FBI Miami shootout comes to mind where Platt was hit by a 9mm that stopped just by his heart and collapsed his lung. The autopsy found over a liter of blood in his body cavity from that wound but he still walked around and shot several agents after taking the hit.
pjciii
Senior Member
I use Speer gold dot 90gr .380 as my carry load. Feel it would do a good job for maximum expansion.
www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com
.357 I just use Hornaday low flash
Speer 380 Auto 90 GR Gold Dot Personal Protection Hollow Point 20/Box
Speer: 380 Auto 90 GR Gold Dot Personal Protection Hollow Point 20/Box for sale at Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore.
www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com
.357 I just use Hornaday low flash
snuffy
Senior Member
One of the biggest baddest men I have ever known was killed by his wife with one 22 to the heart.
Took him awhile to die. He could have done a LOT of damage after he was shot if he had wanted to.
He just walked around in his back yard spraying blood everywhere till he died.
That was back in the 70s
Took him awhile to die. He could have done a LOT of damage after he was shot if he had wanted to.
He just walked around in his back yard spraying blood everywhere till he died.
That was back in the 70s
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Yep.
People are like deer, look at 100 different shootings and you have a good chance at seeing 100 different results.
If someone that you just shot hasn't dropped or isn't running away but still coming towards you...you are in for more than than you expected.
The majority of self defense pistol cartridges used in easily concealable handguns are not "hit anywhere" powerful. Like you said, Central Nervous System disruption is about the only guaranteed quick stopper. Bullets through the heart and lungs will kill, just not quickly like rifle bullets.
Even + P ammo has a learning curve. From what I have seen in testing and on Ballistic gel videos that driving light for caliber bullets faster actually allows them to expand more and then penetrate less compared to the heavier bullets. For example, +P 115gr HPs usually won't penetrate as well as Standard or +P 147gr HPs because the added velocity over expands them which limits penetration.
All that being said....carrying what you got and feel is the best ammo for you is 100% better than not carrying anything.
Expansion without penetration doesn't matter. I do like the gold dots, though.I use Speer gold dot 90gr .380 as my carry load. Feel it would do a good job for maximum expansion.
Speer 380 Auto 90 GR Gold Dot Personal Protection Hollow Point 20/Box
Speer: 380 Auto 90 GR Gold Dot Personal Protection Hollow Point 20/Box for sale at Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore.
.357 I just use Hornaday low flash
SC Hunter
Senior Member
I've seen people shot with alot of different calibers. Their usually mad as fire and often won't listen to anything anybody tells them. I carry a 22 mag over a 380 personally. I've seen folks shot multiple times with decent calibers and still wanting to fight. They only way to lay somebody down right there is shut down the CNS.
Speaking of meth, I had a little 140 pound guy grab me about a year ago at work and just about hurt me. My partner was a female and she hit him with the tough book during the struggle. He didn't care a bit he'd been smoking meth for 2 days. I'm strong and have wrestled and done bjj and seriously thought I was going to have to stab him before I could get him to go to sleep. We destroyed that ambulance and broke 2 sliding doors before I was in the door well wrapping him up. Meth is a powerful drug.
Speaking of meth, I had a little 140 pound guy grab me about a year ago at work and just about hurt me. My partner was a female and she hit him with the tough book during the struggle. He didn't care a bit he'd been smoking meth for 2 days. I'm strong and have wrestled and done bjj and seriously thought I was going to have to stab him before I could get him to go to sleep. We destroyed that ambulance and broke 2 sliding doors before I was in the door well wrapping him up. Meth is a powerful drug.
Sadly,I can believe this. Why..some of you may ask..
. Well,some years ago..I was out of town working,and my wife was home alone,with the kids. One night the inside dog starts raising a holy ruckus & wifey got spooked,to the point that she grabbed her trusty .38. She grabbed the bedside flashlight,cocked the .38 hammer back..and proceeded down the stairs to greet the intruder. After finding nothing amiss & all the doors locked + intact..she attempted to let the hammer back down. She lost her grip on the hammer & let it fall hard enough to fire the round :
She told me about this after I got home..and I was expecting holes in the wall(s)..but no..it hit the tile floor,just in front of her feet. Didn’t even crack the tile…just smudged it dark grey,then it skipped over & hit the wall about 10ft away. Just indented the wall,like a grown man pressed a knuckle into it hard.! I was glad that she didn’t get hurt…but it changed my whole opinion of a Lead,round nosed,.38 sp. round! Pathetic.! I bought her some Hornady FTX & instructed her to use that .38…as a last resort. The Ruger PC9,with a 30 round mag..and good light mounted on it is a much better choice..and has nearly zero recoil.
The Original Rooster
Mayor of Spring Hill
What's worse is that the .38 Special we have today is NOT the same .38 Special they had in the 60's and before. My buddy picked up a reloading manual from the 60's and look what we found. The maximum velocities from back then are much higher than what you find today except in +P or even +P+ loads. We believe it's been lawyered down over the years. If that 146 grain load is going 1111 fps, imagine what a 125 grain load would do!Sadly,I can believe this. Why..some of you may ask..
notnksnemor
The Great and Powerful Oz
I'll use a #2 pencil to the eye if somebody is on top of me and that's all I can get my hands on.
Use what's available.
Use what's available.
Hillbilly stalker
Senior Member
This is from the old "Street survival" seminar/class that was used to teach LEO's back in the 80's and 90's. I had to screen shot the picture because of computer problems. If I remember correctly this cat was on LSD, he soaked up 33 9mm rounds and finally 2 12 gauge rounds took him down. His weapon was locked to the rear (empty mag). Hollywood and peoples personal opinions have lead folks to think one shot and they drop. That's hardly the case when being shot by a handgun , somewhere between 70% -80% of people shot by handguns survive. That's what they taught then, bullets have came along way and those numbers may have changed.
Medical researchers have established that nearly 20 per cent of the time, suspects who are shot will not be incapacitated by just one round, even though they are fatally wounded. They're dead...they just don't know it! Some 13 per cent will keep going up to five minutes ; nearly 7 per cent, even longer. In Philadelphia, an assailant was shot square in the heart—yet he managed to walk down a flight of stairs and open two door s before he collapsed. In New York , a suspect hit in the stomach, bladder and gallbladder ran three blocks before collapsing. Even multiple shots will not bring down some suspects . In Los Angeles , another suspect kept firing through 20 hits, before the 21st finally dropped him . In another case , a suspect was shot 33 times with 9mm rounds before ceasing his threatening movement . Even hits from multiple shotgun rounds have failed to immediately stop some assailants . Liquor store robber who was shot 33 times with 9mm rounds before becoming incapacitated.
Medical researchers have established that nearly 20 per cent of the time, suspects who are shot will not be incapacitated by just one round, even though they are fatally wounded. They're dead...they just don't know it! Some 13 per cent will keep going up to five minutes ; nearly 7 per cent, even longer. In Philadelphia, an assailant was shot square in the heart—yet he managed to walk down a flight of stairs and open two door s before he collapsed. In New York , a suspect hit in the stomach, bladder and gallbladder ran three blocks before collapsing. Even multiple shots will not bring down some suspects . In Los Angeles , another suspect kept firing through 20 hits, before the 21st finally dropped him . In another case , a suspect was shot 33 times with 9mm rounds before ceasing his threatening movement . Even hits from multiple shotgun rounds have failed to immediately stop some assailants . Liquor store robber who was shot 33 times with 9mm rounds before becoming incapacitated.
